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| 02:42:49 [yeonhoo] | hum |
| 02:42:50 [yeonhoo] | hi |
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| 05:44:49 [mhausenblas] | good morning Web of Data |
| 05:46:23 [mhausenblas] | http://jowl.ontologyonline.org/ |
| 05:46:24 [dc_swig] | A: http://jowl.ontologyonline.org/ from mhausenblas |
| 05:46:43 [mhausenblas] | A:| jOWL is a jQuery plugin for navigating and visualising OWL-RDFS documents |
| 05:46:45 [dc_swig] | Titled item A. |
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| 06:53:00 [mhausenblas] | libby!!! |
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| 08:13:12 [Wikier] | Pointer Methods in RDF |
| 08:13:18 [Wikier] | http://www.w3.org/TR/Pointers-in-RDF/ |
| 08:13:20 [dc_swig] | B: http://www.w3.org/TR/Pointers-in-RDF/ from Wikier |
| 08:13:27 [Wikier] | B:|Pointer Methods in RDF |
| 08:13:28 [dc_swig] | Titled item B. |
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| 08:49:40 [mhausenblas] | http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/happy_20th_birthday_world_wide_web.php |
| 08:49:41 [dc_swig] | C: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/happy_20th_birthday_world_wide_web.php from mhausenblas |
| 08:49:50 [mhausenblas] | C:| Happy 20th Birthday, World Wide Web |
| 08:49:51 [dc_swig] | Titled item C. |
| 08:50:21 [mhausenblas] | C: includes the video of TimBL's TED talk (finally we've found it ;) |
| 08:50:23 [dc_swig] | Added comment C1. |
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| 08:50:55 [mhausenblas] | C: congrats from my side as well! now: the next 20 years - let's start with linked data :D |
| 08:50:56 [dc_swig] | Added comment C2. |
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| 09:03:12 [kjetilkWork] | strange, I can't find timbl's talk from ted.com/ |
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| 09:09:12 [mhausenblas] | kjetilkWork: yeah, true, re video on TED ... dunno |
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| 09:14:07 [kjetilkWork] | Supposedly, they want to promote it and it isn't officially out yet, perhaps they'll do it today? |
| 09:15:08 [kjetilkWork] | |
| 09:15:29 [bengee] | "will be posted on the TED website early Friday morning" |
| 09:16:16 [mhausenblas] | yeah, might be |
| 09:16:30 [mhausenblas] | wondering though how r/w web did it then ;) |
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| 09:17:05 [mhausenblas] | I really love the scene where TimBL animates the people like 'speak after me' : raw RAW data DATA now NOW ;) |
| 09:18:01 [mhausenblas] | bengee, got time today? |
| 09:18:07 [mhausenblas] | re ESWC09 skype chat |
| 09:18:20 [mhausenblas] | round 12:00CET ... |
| 09:18:28 [bengee] | not much, but 30mins or so would be ok |
| 09:18:34 [mhausenblas] | great! |
| 09:18:38 [mhausenblas] | can you demo something? |
| 09:19:28 [bengee] | not sure yet. still working on UI stuff |
| 09:20:04 [mhausenblas] | right |
| 09:20:09 [mhausenblas] | well, let's see ;) |
| 09:20:09 [kjetilkWork] | * kjetilkWork will watch it on my TV tonight |
| 09:20:11 [mhausenblas] | thanks |
| 09:20:20 [mhausenblas] | nJoy ;) |
| 09:20:28 [kjetilkWork] | :-) |
| 09:21:34 [kjetilkWork] | * kjetilkWork managed to get his semweb, swig and his name mentioned in one of Norway's largest papers today: http://www.dagbladet.no/2009/03/13/kultur/tekno/internett/world_wide_web/tim_berners-lee/5255906/ |
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| 09:27:18 [kjetilkWork] | http://www.leirdal.net/blog/uploads/semanticcake2.jpg |
| 09:27:20 [dc_swig] | D: http://www.leirdal.net/blog/uploads/semanticcake2.jpg from kjetilkWork |
| 09:27:40 [kjetilkWork] | D:|The Layer Cake; in celebration of the day |
| 09:27:41 [dc_swig] | Titled item D. |
| 09:27:53 [kjetilkWork] | D:And David Norheim's birthday tomorrow |
| 09:27:54 [dc_swig] | Added comment D1. |
| 09:28:15 [mhausenblas] | congrats kjetilkWork |
| 09:28:33 [kjetilkWork] | congrats, mhausenblas! |
| 09:29:34 [kjetilkWork] | D1:And [http://www.leirdal.net/blog/archives/140-Semantic-Web-Layer-Cake.html|David Norheim]'s birthday tomorrow |
| 09:29:36 [dc_swig] | Replaced comment D1. |
| 09:30:22 [mhausenblas] | kjetilkWork: for what? |
| 09:30:48 [kjetilkWork] | D: Baked by Computas Engineer Terese Liadal |
| 09:30:49 [dc_swig] | Added comment D2. |
| 09:31:00 [kjetilkWork] | mhausenblas, for the web, it belongs to us all now :-) |
| 09:31:41 [mhausenblas] | stupid bugger you are ;) |
| 09:32:03 [kjetilkWork] | :-) |
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| 09:32:19 [kjetilkWork] | D:+[http://www.leirdal.net/blog/uploads/semanticcake2.jpg] |
| 09:32:20 [dc_swig] | Added comment D3. |
| 09:33:19 [kjetilkWork] | Terese did her master's using SWRL, as you can probably tell :-) |
| 09:33:42 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas back to getting pushback fusion done |
| 09:33:50 [kjetilkWork] | :-) |
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| 09:53:38 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas just thinking of cygri this lucky bastard, now sitting at CERN an participating in the 20year Web celebration ... on the other hand he's really deserved it ... have fun :) |
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| 10:27:04 [Leaving] | how do you solve the following issue: hasAge property must be read-only and calculated (NOW - hasBirthDate) |
| 10:28:07 [swh] | Leaving: you could use DOB fields instead |
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| 10:29:40 [Leaving] | DOB - date of birth? |
| 10:29:45 [swh] | yeah |
| 10:30:14 [Leaving] | is this a specification or what? |
| 10:30:24 [swh] | age is only really useful if you're emitting live data |
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| 10:30:45 [swh] | is what a specification? |
| 10:31:04 [Leaving] | those DOB fields |
| 10:32:12 [Leaving] | it would be just comfortable to have two properties for this |
| 10:32:38 [Leaving] | one for actual storing the date and one for reading age |
| 10:34:05 [swh] | http://vocab.org/bio/0.1.html represents date of birth |
| 10:34:06 [dc_swig] | E: http://vocab.org/bio/0.1.html from swh |
| 10:34:22 [swh] | E:| BIO ontology |
| 10:34:23 [dc_swig] | Titled item E. |
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| 10:46:46 [mhausenblas] | now, this really rocks |
| 10:47:09 [mhausenblas] | our main pushback developer, Szymon just gave me a demo on a Jira pushback |
| 10:47:37 [mhausenblas] | Jira (http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/) is for tracking bugs and issues |
| 10:48:03 [mhausenblas] | what he basically did is take my proof of concept from Twitter and applied it to a Jira bug report form |
| 10:48:18 [mhausenblas] | we're now able to change an issue |
| 10:49:00 [mhausenblas] | based on a BAETLE2RDForms mapping, the RDForm is able to pushback the changes to the Jira instance |
| 10:52:17 [bengee] | cool |
| 10:54:15 [Leaving] | The requested resource http://vocab.orghttp://vocab.org/bio/0.1.html was not found on this server (empty description) |
| 10:54:21 [Leaving] | :( |
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| 10:55:00 [mhausenblas] | I'll set it up at the ld2sd server as soon as I can and share |
| 10:55:09 [mhausenblas] | (the Jira demo, I mean) |
| 10:55:21 [mhausenblas] | btw, I've also created a Google project for pushback |
| 10:55:36 [mhausenblas] | in case you're interested lemme know and I add you there |
| 10:55:48 [mhausenblas] | .g pushback Google project RDF |
| 10:55:49 [phenny] | mhausenblas: http://esw.w3.org/topic/PushBackDataToLegacySources |
| 10:55:55 [mhausenblas] | mhm |
| 10:56:01 [mhausenblas] | http://code.google.com/p/pushback/ |
| 10:56:02 [dc_swig] | F: http://code.google.com/p/pushback/ from mhausenblas |
| 10:56:21 [mhausenblas] | F:| Google code home for pushback |
| 10:56:23 [dc_swig] | Titled item F. |
| 10:56:43 [mhausenblas] | F: let /me know in case you want to contribute |
| 10:56:45 [dc_swig] | Added comment F1. |
| 10:57:57 [mhausenblas] | F: side note on the Google code content (incl. Jira demo) I'll provide the sources later today |
| 10:57:59 [dc_swig] | Added comment F2. |
| 10:58:24 [mhausenblas] | F: gotta clean up a bit, do some quiche eating commenting and provide READMEs |
| 10:58:26 [dc_swig] | Added comment F3. |
| 10:58:44 [mhausenblas] | F: any feedback more than welcome, as usual to michael.hausenblas AT deri.org |
| 10:58:45 [dc_swig] | Added comment F4. |
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| 13:28:05 [libby] | * libby finds http://www94.web.cern.ch/WWW94/Images/ClosingPanel/Closingpanel5.gif |
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| 13:30:54 [mischat] | are you partying at cern libby ? |
| 13:34:58 [libby] | yeh :) |
| 13:35:10 [libby] | http://www.flickr.com/photos/pldms/3350756203/ |
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| 13:43:45 [kjetilkWork] | * kjetilkWork is responsible for all the Norwegians joining just now, he suspects :-) |
| 13:44:35 [Lars-NO] | * Lars-NO cheers for Dagbladet.no |
| 13:45:38 [kjetilkWork] | :-) |
| 13:45:58 [kjetilkWork] | that was a off-the record thing, but well :-) |
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| 14:09:46 [bblfish] | how does one say in N3 |
| 14:09:53 [bblfish] | the union of X and what I believe? |
| 14:10:37 [bblfish] | ( X <> ) log:conjunction union . ? |
| 14:13:40 [bblfish] | ( G1 mygraph ) log:conjunction theunionofTheTwo . |
| 14:13:55 [bblfish] | I am trying inject my beliefs into someone else's graph |
| 14:14:12 [bblfish] | to see what they would agree to given what I know |
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| 14:21:54 [BenO] | * BenO watching http://webcast.cern.ch as I sit here and rue being in the office and not in Geneva! |
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| 14:28:43 [mhausenblas] | ha cygri is on TV ;) |
| 14:29:57 [mhausenblas] | such a slacker. I call him on his mobile while watching him. and he turns me down. just wait when you come back home ;) |
| 14:30:00 [mhausenblas] | logger, pointer |
| 14:30:01 [logger] | See http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2009-03-13#T14-30-00 |
| 14:30:14 [mhausenblas] | phenny, tell cygri see http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2009-03-13#T14-30-00 |
| 14:30:15 [phenny] | mhausenblas: I'll pass that on when cygri is around. |
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| 14:31:58 [kasei] | heh |
| 14:32:27 [mhausenblas] | kasei: don't laugh . that's bloody serious. |
| 14:32:30 [mhausenblas] | :D |
| 14:32:53 [kasei] | i just love that phenny is now going to harrass him with it when he's next around. |
| 14:33:02 [mhausenblas] | that was the idea, indeed |
| 14:33:14 [mhausenblas] | such a lucky bastard |
| 14:33:25 [mhausenblas] | ha I mentioned that already, right? ;) |
| 14:33:43 [mhausenblas] | anways, how about you these days, kasei |
| 14:33:49 [mhausenblas] | all well I hope? |
| 14:34:29 [kasei] | yeah, pretty good here. school is on break for a week, so been hacking on my sparql engine and some othe r pet projects. |
| 14:35:21 [mhausenblas] | cool |
| 14:35:33 [mhausenblas] | ah, btw, did I ask you already re pushback? |
| 14:36:00 [kasei] | don't recall anything named that... (?) |
| 14:36:01 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas annoying anyone here with it who doesn't run away quickly enough ;) |
| 14:36:08 [mhausenblas] | .g pushback RDForms |
| 14:36:10 [phenny] | mhausenblas: http://ld2sd.deri.org/pushback/fusion/ |
| 14:36:16 [mhausenblas] | well, not bad |
| 14:36:30 [mhausenblas] | http://esw.w3.org/topic/PushBackDataToLegacySources |
| 14:36:57 [mhausenblas] | the first link was the RDForms generator prototype |
| 14:37:12 [mhausenblas] | the idea is: make it a write-able SW |
| 14:37:25 [mhausenblas] | as most real-world sites don't run RDF stores |
| 14:37:42 [mhausenblas] | but we already have a lot RDF data to view/browse |
| 14:37:53 [kasei] | ooh. like the idea (esp. flickr) |
| 14:38:27 [mhausenblas] | so, what do you use when you are 'in' the semantic space (i.e. viewing and RDF doc) and want to update the Web 2.0 data source from which it has been derived |
| 14:39:01 [mhausenblas] | very simple: take the original HTML form from that very Web 2.0 site, decorate it with RDFa and there you go ;) |
| 14:39:15 [mhausenblas] | along comes a simple key-value vocabulary |
| 14:39:19 [kasei] | eh. "subscribe to public-lod". I just turned that off because I couldn't keep up with the traffic! :( |
| 14:39:28 [mhausenblas] | come on |
| 14:39:29 [mischat] | pfff, the webcast has gone black for me :( |
| 14:39:39 [mhausenblas] | damn. lemme check |
| 14:39:57 [mhausenblas] | yep, true |
| 14:40:22 [mhausenblas] | [privacy setting] party=TRUE, location=CERN ;) |
| 14:41:50 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas back to the fusion engine |
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| 14:42:20 [BenO] | mhausenblas, heh - btw I am very interested in RDForms - (saw JeniT at the Oxford SWIG meet) |
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| 14:46:02 [swh] | mhausenblas: the pushback stuff looks really cool |
| 14:51:11 [mischat] | audio is back up again on the cern.webcast |
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| 14:52:31 [mhausenblas] | hey cool BenO |
| 14:52:41 [mhausenblas] | ah, did she mentioned it? |
| 14:52:46 [mhausenblas] | thanks swh |
| 14:52:56 [mhausenblas] | wait for the Jira screencast ;) |
| 14:53:20 [mhausenblas] | mischat: visual as well ;) |
| 14:53:33 [BenO] | mhausenblas, She had your interface in one or two of her slides |
| 14:54:03 [swh] | mhausenblas: it seems like if the legacy->RDF thing was more structured you might be able to reverse it in some cases, eg. if it worked like XSLT |
| 14:54:04 [mhausenblas] | wow, that's nice of her (even though I'd not even call it a prototype, now ;) |
| 14:54:10 [shellac] | shellac has joined #swig |
| 14:54:12 [swh] | but doing the first bit is already crazy hard |
| 14:54:37 [mhausenblas] | swh, talked with cygri long about reversing DBpedia process |
| 14:54:41 [BenO] | mhausenblas, both your and her applications do serve as good examples as to why rdfa is so useful |
| 14:54:43 [mhausenblas] | short answer: forget it ;) |
| 14:54:48 [swh] | heh :) |
| 14:54:57 [mhausenblas] | yep, BenO but that is just a by-product |
| 14:55:19 [mhausenblas] | I really belive in pushback enabling a total new class of use cases |
| 14:55:37 [mhausenblas] | in contrast to the read-only SW we have now |
| 14:55:52 [mhausenblas] | regarding real-world sites and services I mean |
| 14:56:05 [mhausenblas] | not about academia/research stuff where we're all good at ;) |
| 14:56:11 [mhausenblas] | ah, they start again |
| 14:56:16 [BenO] | mhausenblas, I think that it could help 'fix' the problems with html forms on a *very* practical level |
| 14:56:48 [mhausenblas] | yep ;) |
| 14:57:04 [mhausenblas] | in 1h Tim is going to present |
| 14:57:13 [BenO] | mhausenblas, Seeing as most of my work to archive information uses RDF as its currency, simplifying RDF+HTML forms is a massive win for me |
| 14:57:20 [mhausenblas] | now this guy does it in French |
| 14:57:28 [mhausenblas] | good BenO |
| 14:57:35 [mhausenblas] | add a use case, please :) |
| 14:57:39 [kwijibo] | kwijibo has quit |
| 14:57:49 [BenO] | mhausenblas, Here or somewhere else? :) |
| 14:57:52 [mischat] | in 5 mins timbl will present ? |
| 14:58:24 [mhausenblas] | no in 1h |
| 14:58:34 [mischat] | ok |
| 14:58:45 [mhausenblas] | ah, hang on 1h time shift |
| 14:58:50 [mhausenblas] | damn, I missed it |
| 14:58:53 [shellac] | No, 5 mins |
| 14:58:56 [mhausenblas] | did he say 4:00pm? |
| 14:59:01 [mhausenblas] | ah, ok, thanks!!! |
| 14:59:01 [Arnia] | Arnia has quit |
| 14:59:05 [_psychic_] | _psychic_ has joined #swig |
| 14:59:06 [shellac] | Yep |
| 14:59:12 [mhausenblas] | great |
| 14:59:36 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas off for a quick fag and grab some coffee, be back after the 'break' :D |
| 14:59:36 [shellac] | Not started quite yet. Don't panic |
| 14:59:45 [mhausenblas] | yeah, I see ;D |
| 14:59:51 [BenO] | The music is... 80s awesomeness btw... |
| 15:00:01 [mhausenblas] | aaaaaaaaaawful |
| 15:00:03 [mhausenblas] | :D |
| 15:00:16 [mhausenblas] | reading thoughts of the people in the audience: |
| 15:00:23 [mhausenblas] | when the heck comes Tim ;) |
| 15:00:37 [BenO] | reading the emails of some people near the camera ;) |
| 15:00:54 [mhausenblas] | I mean, nothing against the kids in the video. nice.got myself three of them, but, .... |
| 15:00:55 [kasei] | is this stream public? |
| 15:00:58 [mhausenblas] | anyway, BRB |
| 15:01:01 [mhausenblas] | yeah |
| 15:01:06 [mhausenblas] | go to http://webcast.cern.ch/ |
| 15:01:12 [kasei] | ta |
| 15:01:16 [mhausenblas] | welcome |
| 15:02:33 [shellac] | This last game looks fun |
| 15:02:50 [shellac] | We were dressed like that this morning |
| 15:04:11 [kasei] | hahaha... cernettes? |
| 15:04:19 [kasei] | this is awesome |
| 15:04:19 [BenO] | Anyone else terrified by the lyrics? |
| 15:04:32 [mischat] | yup, i am close to being ill |
| 15:04:39 [BenO] | "open my windows to you" |
| 15:04:52 [libby] | inapproporite for children! |
| 15:04:53 [mischat] | YAY finished now |
| 15:05:04 [mischat] | yup, it was very odd |
| 15:05:06 [shellac] | I think he said it was written in 92 (?) |
| 15:05:20 [mischat] | no excuse ... |
| 15:05:32 [BenO] | libby, Definitely :) |
| 15:06:09 [shellac] | Somebody grab mhausenblas |
| 15:06:16 [mischat] | eh, i said 5 mins ;) |
| 15:06:55 [BenO] | mhausenblas, run! |
| 15:08:09 [mischat] | gah, the stream keeps freezing up |
| 15:08:24 [BenO] | It's everyone jumping on :) |
| 15:08:26 [swh] | for me too |
| 15:08:34 [BenO] | timbl fanbois ;) |
| 15:08:53 [mischat] | \me throws underwear at screen |
| 15:09:01 [shellac] | Scribing on iPhone impossible. Apologies |
| 15:09:20 [mischat] | f**k |
| 15:09:35 [BenO] | mischat, Huh? what up? |
| 15:09:46 [mischat] | skipping |
| 15:10:32 [mischat] | they need more interweb at cern hehe |
| 15:11:08 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas watching TimV as well ;) |
| 15:11:49 [BenO] | mischat, Hmm I'm getting a decent feed .. |
| 15:12:01 [mhausenblas] | I love it |
| 15:12:13 [mischat] | swh: is it because we are both watching it from here ? |
| 15:12:18 [swh] | I've closed mine mischat, maybe it's a local problem |
| 15:13:13 [libby] | [timbl]: don't get people to change the way they work; make everything have a url |
| 15:13:58 [libby] | ...and make it universal, for everything |
| 15:14:27 [BenO] | [timbl] It's no good having a web for work and a web for academia |
| 15:14:30 [libby] | ...any OS, hardware, language |
| 15:15:15 [libby] | ...culture |
| 15:16:01 [libby] | ...cern not charging royalities was very important |
| 15:16:20 [libby] | ...agree on a few simple thing: use uris, http server |
| 15:16:38 [libby] | ...now saying this for data: use rdf, else the same |
| 15:16:57 [nathany] | nathany has joined #swig |
| 15:16:57 [bblfish] | bblfish has quit |
| 15:16:59 [libby] | ...linked open data is now ike how the web was 20 years ago |
| 15:17:02 [LarsNO] | LarsNO has quit |
| 15:17:19 [besbes_] | besbes_ has quit |
| 15:17:22 [lheuer] | lheuer has quit |
| 15:17:35 [mhausenblas] | [timbl] don't look back |
| 15:17:39 [libby] | ...web is still innovating like mad |
| 15:17:46 [mhausenblas] | ... look forward! |
| 15:18:06 [libby] | ...new stuff we'd never imagined |
| 15:18:37 [mhausenblas] | ... the Web of Data as a base for processing |
| 15:19:06 [mhausenblas] | ... when the Web took off - thhhhhhhhhhhhhhhek |
| 15:19:09 [mhausenblas] | ;) |
| 15:19:26 [mhausenblas] | ... all happened in the US, so I went there (had to) |
| 15:20:04 [libby] | ...recent important stuff: mobile web initiative, more browesrs on phones than laptops, and developing countries often only way people can use the internet |
| 15:20:28 [libby] | ...also getting data out there |
| 15:20:28 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas notes that libby is a better scribe than me ;) |
| 15:20:41 [Arnia] | Arnia has joined #swig |
| 15:20:53 [libby] | * libby is gonna run out power soon :( |
| 15:21:09 [mhausenblas] | TimBL now starts with linked data (design note) |
| 15:21:16 [libby] | ...article timbl wrote called linked data |
| 15:21:17 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas trying to keep up |
| 15:21:44 [mhausenblas] | ... you can do stuff with data that you can't do with documents |
| 15:21:48 [libby] | ...picked up using depedia and other things - movement called linked open data - gte that data out there |
| 15:22:11 [mhausenblas] | ... put the data behind the Web site out there |
| 15:22:17 [libby] | ...lots of people would love to get their hands on cern data for example |
| 15:22:22 [BenO] | Oh noes... web feed just died |
| 15:22:29 [libby] | ...demand that govenment put the data on the web |
| 15:22:39 [libby] | ...as tax payers |
| 15:22:49 [libby] | ...also collab data like open street maps |
| 15:23:08 [libby] | ...veryinteresting resources |
| 15:23:14 [mhausenblas] | (quite similar to TED talk, isn't it ;) |
| 15:23:22 [libby] | ...also social networking data, people fed up with hoarding data |
| 15:23:59 [mhausenblas] | ... mentions DanBri |
| 15:24:01 [libby] | ...see TED.com talk |
| 15:24:09 [libby] | ...more on there about this |
| 15:24:59 [libby] | ...now 10 power 11 webpages, the number of neurons in your brain |
| 15:25:11 [bengee] | heh, did he just mention beer? |
| 15:25:16 [libby] | yeah :-) |
| 15:25:21 [mhausenblas] | ... which go down with every beer |
| 15:25:24 [libby] | ...beer kills neurons |
| 15:25:47 [BenO] | timbl++ |
| 15:25:56 [libby] | ...web is just stuff, but full of communities, need a psychologist tounderstand it, and an economist...and... |
| 15:26:11 [libby] | ...to undderstand where people mkaes links |
| 15:26:54 [libby] | ...is society on the web stable? will blogs be relatively true or turn into consiracy theor only? could the planet be taken over by mad ideas at once becaues of the web? |
| 15:27:10 [libby] | ...web is something to study - web science initiative |
| 15:27:11 [mhausenblas] | now talks about Web Science |
| 15:28:10 [libby] | ...80% of humanty doesn;t use the web at all |
| 15:28:40 [jhalv] | jhalv has quit |
| 15:28:45 [libby] | ...that's why needs standards and devices and network, and social stuff |
| 15:29:15 [libby] | ...people can be very creative when they have few power resources |
| 15:29:45 [libby] | ...in proces of makign the webfoundation.org |
| 15:29:58 [tobyink] | beer does kill neurons, but only the weak ones. |
| 15:30:00 [libby] | ..addressing more broadly that the web should serve humanity. |
| 15:30:19 [libby] | tobyink: so darwinian! |
| 15:30:33 [libby] | * libby needs power :( |
| 15:30:34 [tobyink] | indeed - so ultimately, beer makes you smarter. |
| 15:31:00 [libby] | :D |
| 15:31:01 [libby] | good |
| 15:31:13 [libby] | * libby must be very smart then :P |
| 15:31:45 [libby] | [timbl]: thanking friends at cern, for being cool, laughing at project names |
| 15:31:58 [BenO] | * BenO claps alone in office... |
| 15:31:59 [libby] | ...great to have the popportunity to come back and say thanks |
| 15:32:51 [mhausenblas] | Q&A session |
| 15:32:59 [mhausenblas] | 1. Will the SW ever work? |
| 15:33:18 [mhausenblas] | TimBL: mentions exponential graph |
| 15:33:18 [JibberJim] | JibberJim has quit |
| 15:33:27 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas has no stream anymore, damn |
| 15:33:45 [mhausenblas] | anyone else able to scribe? |
| 15:34:13 [shellac] | On different scales you get different take off points |
| 15:34:22 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas thanks shellac |
| 15:34:23 [BenO] | ... semantic web is happening right now |
| 15:34:25 [mintsauce] | mintsauce has joined #swig |
| 15:34:37 [JibberJim] | JibberJim has joined #swig |
| 15:34:52 [mhausenblas] | 2. Would you do something different? |
| 15:35:08 [mhausenblas] | TimBL: reverse order in URI |
| 15:35:15 [shellac] | Http/CERN/info |
| 15:35:36 [mhausenblas] | like dates 2009/03/13 |
| 15:35:50 [mhausenblas] | most important information first |
| 15:35:51 [BenO] | ..... dates should always be in astronomical format YYYY/MM/DD |
| 15:35:56 [shellac] | Uk did work like that |
| 15:36:06 [mhausenblas] | go to com.google.www ;) |
| 15:36:12 [shellac] | Uk.ac.bris |
| 15:36:45 [mhausenblas] | mentions politics in DNS |
| 15:36:49 [BenO] | .... Q. How did you get the idea for the WWW? - Ans. read the book |
| 15:36:53 [mhausenblas] | :) |
| 15:37:04 [mhausenblas] | takes question form the audience |
| 15:37:08 [BenO] | Urgh journo mentions privacy... |
| 15:37:10 [mhausenblas] | a journalist |
| 15:37:12 [BenO] | cant hear him |
| 15:37:15 [BenO] | properly |
| 15:37:27 [shellac] | It was obvious (serious answer) |
| 15:37:50 [libby] | libby has quit |
| 15:38:03 [mhausenblas] | Q: isn't privacy a threat? |
| 15:38:04 [dc_swig] | Label Q not found. |
| 15:38:06 [libby] | libby has joined #swig |
| 15:38:21 [mhausenblas] | TimBL: not everything is open - you have to log on |
| 15:38:27 [shellac] | * shellac hypnotised by remote flash on journo camera |
| 15:38:56 [libby] | * libby found power, thanks to a nice jounalist |
| 15:38:58 [libby] | ...problems when mix info that you get because you are afriend with other info |
| 15:39:12 [libby] | ...need to have appropriate uses for data tagged along with it |
| 15:39:17 [libby] | q: what are the threats we should worry baout? |
| 15:39:32 [BenO] | ... Q. you hinted at threats, what are they? |
| 15:39:42 [libby] | [timbl]: many are at the infrastructure level |
| 15:39:43 [BenO] | ... threats more at the infrestructure level |
| 15:39:46 [libby] | heh |
| 15:39:59 [libby] | double scribing |
| 15:40:09 [BenO] | libby, Soz :) |
| 15:40:12 [libby] | no no! |
| 15:40:25 [shellac] | Paladine: dpi mention for you |
| 15:40:35 [BenO] | ... the fact that when information goes through the internet, it is good that it can do so unmolested |
| 15:40:40 [libby] | ...interfering wth data, filtering or ad, or snooping - lots would like to do that, governments and companes |
| 15:41:03 [BenO] | ... but govs and industry want to or are filtering, adding ads, snooping, deep-packet inspection |
| 15:41:11 [libby] | ...snooping on web traffic now builds a hugely detailed picture of you |
| 15:41:45 [BenO] | ... keep the web as something you can use, so that you can click on something and not worry that someone out there will know what you clicked on |
| 15:42:13 [BenO] | ... Q. As it is very easy to download [everything], are you afraid that internet will collapse? |
| 15:42:16 [mhausenblas] | ... for example cancer or gay site |
| 15:42:18 [libby] | beno: llet me know when you get tired |
| 15:42:25 [libby] | of scribing |
| 15:43:12 [BenO] | ... ISPs are getting very clever with their Quality of Service - movie watchers might loose a frame, before you'd lose a text message |
| 15:43:27 [BenO] | ... but bandwidth is getting bigger and bigger |
| 15:43:34 [EmmaP_] | EmmaP_ has joined #swig |
| 15:44:00 [BenO] | ... [timbl] I think it's an issue, but maybe we don't have to have internet services that deliver HQ video |
| 15:44:03 [libby] | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_service - intersting stuff |
| 15:44:08 [BenO] | ... for developing world |
| 15:44:16 [mhausenblas] | oh, steven is aksing ;) |
| 15:44:39 [BenO] | ... Q. I wonder if you anticipated client-side applications such as ... (didnt hear) |
| 15:45:12 [shellac] | Scripting (I think) |
| 15:45:13 [BenO] | argh webstream glitch |
| 15:45:19 [BenO] | cant scribe |
| 15:45:45 [toresbe] | toresbe has joined #swig |
| 15:45:53 [BenO] | libby, cant scribe... |
| 15:46:01 [leobard] | leobard has quit |
| 15:46:01 [shellac] | Answer: you could dowload csh, mentioned running it as a bad idea |
| 15:46:18 [toresbe] | toresbe has left #swig |
| 15:46:26 [shellac] | Somebody mentions viola |
| 15:46:41 [shellac] | Could have become the standard |
| 15:47:12 [mhausenblas] | agh, seems that more and more people are using the stream |
| 15:47:19 [mhausenblas] | keeps breaking down |
| 15:47:20 [shellac] | (panel takes the stage) |
| 15:47:35 [BenO] | ... Chris Bizier, Tom Scott, Dan Brickley called to panel + someone (missed their name) |
| 15:47:56 [Arnia] | Arnia has quit |
| 15:48:05 [libby] | ...a new group comes on stage: chris, stephane, danbri and timbl |
| 15:48:18 [libby] | ...danbri foaf, community stuffs |
| 15:48:30 [shellac] | And tom? |
| 15:48:30 [libby] | ..chris - linked data, grass roots, community |
| 15:48:34 [libby] | argh |
| 15:48:37 [libby] | * libby cannot see |
| 15:48:41 [libby] | ...and tom! |
| 15:48:48 [BenO] | ... Stephane Boyare(?) will cover mobile web |
| 15:48:54 [shellac] | Tom Scott |
| 15:49:11 [libby] | ...chris: founder dbpedia, initiator of linking open data project |
| 15:49:18 [BenO] | ... Chris Bizer takes the stand |
| 15:49:20 [libby] | ..chris bizer that is |
| 15:49:36 [BenO] | ... cue faff with ppt |
| 15:49:46 [libby] | * libby finds a chair :-) |
| 15:49:53 [mintsauce] | * mintsauce wonders what event is being scribed? (Joined half way through) |
| 15:49:57 [BenO] | ... 5 mins talk about linking open data project |
| 15:50:14 [libby] | ...grassroost project to extend web with adtaa commons |
| 15:50:19 [libby] | a data commons |
| 15:50:30 [BenO] | ... making data with open licences and publishing them as Linked Data |
| 15:50:34 [shellac] | mintsauce: 20 years of web at CERN |
| 15:50:37 [BenO] | ... taking data with open licences and publishing them as Linked Data |
| 15:50:54 [BenO] | ... May 2007 - beginning of Linked open data project |
| 15:51:01 [IvanHerman] | IvanHerman has quit |
| 15:51:06 [libby] | ...500million rdf triples, 120,000 data links between data resources |
| 15:51:21 [libby] | ...as of sept 2007 |
| 15:51:52 [libby] | ...sept 2008, now 4.5billion picees of information, 180million links |
| 15:51:58 [libby] | (bliemy) |
| 15:52:29 [libby] | ...lots of peple activities, music, life csineces, geo locations, publications, general |
| 15:52:51 [libby] | ...all linked, so can use generic data browsers such as tabulator, timbl 2007 |
| 15:53:10 [libby] | ...another one is 'marbles' |
| 15:53:13 [BenO] | ... (screen shows timbl's foaf) |
| 15:53:34 [BenO] | ... (screen shows timbl's foaf and other things from the datasets) |
| 15:53:36 [libby] | ...marbles shows how many dbs say what |
| 15:53:55 [libby] | ...shows falcons, finds cern in [lots of] dbs |
| 15:54:06 [libby] | ...can be rendered how we like |
| 15:54:41 [BenO] | ... (screen shows DBpedia mobile running/rendered on an iPhone) |
| 15:54:48 [libby] | ...also there's webapis - access to dbs over apis, but these cannot be linked between dbs only within them |
| 15:54:58 [BenO] | ... web apis slice the web into separate data silos |
| 15:55:26 [libby] | ...can't impliement apps against all data on the web - have to change your app - webapis = silos |
| 15:56:05 [libby] | Tom Scott up next |
| 15:56:13 [libby] | ...natural history online project |
| 15:56:28 [libby] | ..interesrted in how t build the web for eeryone to use |
| 15:56:55 [BenO] | catty comment ;) |
| 15:57:17 [libby] | tom: stephen fry saud that wanted to make computers more human literate not the reverse |
| 15:57:30 [libby] | ...it's improving |
| 15:57:53 [libby] | ...steal an idea form william gibson - future is here just not very evenily distributed |
| 15:58:28 [libby] | ...bbc - lots of microsites, not across broad spectrum of all bbc services |
| 15:58:36 [libby] | ...one massive website woudln;t have worked |
| 15:58:54 [libby] | ...would like to suggest that bbc is likea microcosm of the web |
| 15:59:17 [libby] | ...within each microsite coherent, but you can't follow your nose outside |
| 15:59:26 [libby] | ...can't find everything bbc knows abotu jeremy clarkson |
| 15:59:41 [shellac] | Oh boy, clarkson gets everywhere |
| 15:59:44 [eikeon] | eikeon has quit |
| 15:59:54 [libby] | ....thigs are changing - v talented people at bbc; we start with the data - the things and cocepts that matter to people |
| 16:00:05 [libby] | ...each of these things we gave them a uri |
| 16:00:51 [libby] | ...progreammes is trying to provide a webproesence for every programme on bbc. a derefereacable url with info at the end, rdf, html, mobile site |
| 16:01:04 [libby] | ...also music - based on musicbrainz - tried to give a page per artist |
| 16:01:25 [libby] | ...other programems that have also played that artist |
| 16:01:40 [cerealtom] | cerealtom has joined #swig |
| 16:01:49 [libby] | ...current project, bbc earth, same trick for nat histury - page for every concept in the nat hist domain |
| 16:01:56 [libby] | ...website in all 3 cases is the api |
| 16:02:08 [libby] | ...this is linked data |
| 16:02:24 [libby] | ...but we didn;t realise this at first. we caredd deeply about uris |
| 16:02:42 [libby] | ...making info available to machines and people via pis, to break out of microsites |
| 16:03:02 [libby] | ...mor ehuman literate, more himan shaped, less document centric |
| 16:03:17 [libby] | ...semantic web has helped bbc move away from web pages towards concepts and data |
| 16:03:20 [libby] | [yay!] |
| 16:04:05 [libby] | ...hope web is becoming more human literate; way to do this is derefreable urls, linked data. Only approach that scales and makes for coherent, human literate websites |
| 16:04:24 [libby] | Danbri up |
| 16:04:48 [libby] | intro: helped craete stnards in w3c now back in academia at VNU, created foaf |
| 16:04:51 [npe] | npe has quit |
| 16:04:57 [mhausenblas] | you' re mentioned libby!!!! |
| 16:04:59 [BenO] | ... libby get's name-checked :) |
| 16:04:59 [mhausenblas] | ;) |
| 16:05:08 [sYskk] | sYskk has joined #swig |
| 16:05:17 [maxf] | maxf has joined #swig |
| 16:05:28 [libby] | [danbri]: shamelessly stoeln graphics form tim in trinute to him |
| 16:05:32 [libby] | *tribute |
| 16:05:40 [cerealtom] | hey, didnt realise danbri was back to academia. nice one danbri |
| 16:05:42 [libby] | ...web of data is in there from the start |
| 16:05:51 [libby] | ..check out the diagrams |
| 16:06:16 [libby] | ..."vague but exciting" - differrnt kinds of links in the orginal diagram - some doc to doc, some people to doc.... |
| 16:06:40 [libby] | ...what is going on there? some are hypertext links some facts about the world |
| 16:07:12 [libby] | ...semweb project is about unreavelling the mystery of the links between docss to links etween realm life things we really care about |
| 16:07:30 [libby] | [shows '94 doc, blue one] |
| 16:07:50 [libby] | ...web is flat and boring, links between web and things give it depth |
| 16:08:03 [libby] | ...web shoadows aspects of reality |
| 16:08:21 [drrho] | drrho has joined #swig |
| 16:08:23 [libby] | ...dpcuments make claims about the world out there |
| 16:08:45 [libby] | [missed a bit] |
| 16:09:09 [libby] | ...some claims don't necessary agree; chris showed some provenance information, where the claims come from |
| 16:09:25 [libby] | ...disagreements are processible |
| 16:09:31 [libby] | ...rel to foaf? |
| 16:09:45 [libby] | ...in 2000 wanted to see some reality! |
| 16:09:54 [libby] | ...collab with libby and shellac (damian) |
| 16:10:11 [cerealtom] | libby++ |
| 16:10:16 [cerealtom] | shellac++ |
| 16:10:30 [libby] | ...loved the extensions peope made - japan - bloodtype; family tree, language skills, doap - description fo a project |
| 16:10:37 [libby] | * libby blushes |
| 16:10:53 [libby] | ...each new dataset about music increases the ability of me to describe my musical taste |
| 16:10:54 [nicolasnova] | nicolasnova has joined #swig |
| 16:11:10 [libby] | ..agrigulture data, science data |
| 16:11:27 [libby] | ...foaf is tiny and boring project in a way. but can link to the rest of the bits of the web |
| 16:11:57 [libby] | ...last yeah, google social graph, yahoo search monkey [something in russia sorry missed it] garlik (qdos) |
| 16:12:06 [mischat] | yeah ! |
| 16:12:07 [libby] | ...exciting times, can add get more information |
| 16:12:20 [mintsauce] | mintsauce has quit |
| 16:12:20 [libby] | ...read the document that's 20 years old READ IT! READ IT! |
| 16:12:29 [libby] | ...not mystical doc |
| 16:12:43 [libby] | [image credits timbl, iand] |
| 16:12:47 [swh] | yandex in russia |
| 16:12:49 [cerealtom] | thing in russia was yandex |
| 16:12:52 [libby] | thanks swh |
| 16:12:53 [cerealtom] | i think |
| 16:12:58 [libby] | and cerealtom |
| 16:13:04 [libby] | stephane up |
| 16:13:07 [nicolasnova] | yandex? |
| 16:13:18 [libby] | ...chair of mobile web, stephane boyer |
| 16:13:29 [Lars-NO] | Lars-NO has joined #swig |
| 16:13:34 [maxf] | s/boyer/boyera/ |
| 16:13:35 [libby] | [stephane]: wents to talk about www foundation |
| 16:13:40 [libby] | d'oh thanks maxf |
| 16:13:43 [libby] | and hi! |
| 16:13:47 [maxf] | * maxf waves :) |
| 16:14:12 [libby] | ...extend the web to the other 5 billion - can the web be useful to them and improve their lives |
| 16:14:15 [shellac] | No opera peeps here, are there? |
| 16:14:19 [libby] | ...potentially yes, we think |
| 16:14:52 [libby] | ...e.g. solution to provide education and teacher when no school; banking and microcredits when no bank; doctor where no doctor |
| 16:15:06 [libby] | ...also the 4billion mobie phones out there |
| 16:15:07 [maxf] | shellac, nope. Opera doesn't indulge in self congratulation. They work! |
| 16:15:19 [libby] | ...minimal computing power and connectivity; great oopportunity |
| 16:15:52 [maxf] | * maxf really really wishes he'd been able to go, now that he knows who's there |
| 16:15:54 [libby] | ...challenge is to lower the barrier to develop, deploy and access serviecs - e.g. social - for those devices |
| 16:16:00 [libby] | ...like being in the early 90s |
| 16:16:27 [libby] | ...also shoudl be accessible for low literacy rates, in local languages, most of which are not on the web, no charset, not renderable |
| 16:16:46 [libby] | ...how can we help people finding content and services when they have no previous experiences |
| 16:17:00 [libby] | ...relevant, suable and usful for people in developing countries |
| 16:17:37 [libby] | ...many NGOs and potential social entrepreneuros who could help their communities - how do we enable and empower them to autor and deploy services |
| 16:18:09 [libby] | ...several aspects - raising awareness, mobile is not closed, can dev for it; training, supporting them through open sources and free tools |
| 16:18:18 [libby] | [/me thought these were 4 mins each!] |
| 16:18:43 [libby] | ...just starting to build p strategy for the foundation. want to have an impact in this domain |
| 16:18:47 [shellac] | maxf: Curious collection of people |
| 16:19:28 [maxf] | shellac: or a menagerie of mythical monsters? ;) |
| 16:19:39 [libby] | host: "few mins for discussion, though standing between 300 people and the cocktails" |
| 16:19:55 [libby] | ...what sorts of apps can we expect? |
| 16:20:07 [libby] | chirs: move form a search engine to an answer engine - not docs but answers |
| 16:20:58 [libby] | danbri: flying through data in 3d - no! slightly better search results, between mail folder organisatons, data to flow so that less rekeying |
| 16:21:18 [shellac] | maxf: Chaals isn't here. You'd need him for a managerie, I reckon |
| 16:21:31 [justben] | Live webcast at http://webcast.cern.ch/ seems to be working well for me at least, in case anyone missed the link like I did. |
| 16:21:32 [cerealtom] | but danbri, i *want* to fly through data! spoilsport ;) |
| 16:21:56 [libby] | stephane: currently proof of concept but there are for example: fishing community in india query market price by sms, they can take their fish to best place - increasing income by 8% |
| 16:22:03 [Paladine] | shellac, that is some of the things he said at the meeting on wednesday |
| 16:22:09 [libby] | the future of the web is text! |
| 16:22:30 [libby] | [stephane]: price is better, less wastage. |
| 16:22:50 [BenO] | cerealtom, What's the population of India, you ask? Hand me my Talis-trademarked biosuit! I'm going in! |
| 16:22:57 [BenO] | * BenO swims through data.... |
| 16:23:00 [shellac] | cerealtom: We tried it, and it was weak. See the mcf browser screenshots |
| 16:23:00 [libby] | ...in bangladesh you have to register a baby or it doesn;t exist for entire life, cannot leave country, access services etc - now can do it via mobile phone - has changed things massively |
| 16:23:49 [libby] | Q: 4.5billion records - are relational dbs going to be able to scale to cope? are there going to be more scehamless ones instead? how will this scale up? |
| 16:23:50 [dc_swig] | Label Q not found. |
| 16:23:53 [besbes] | besbes has joined #swig |
| 16:24:29 [cerealtom] | BenO: lol :) shellac: but i want to really fly! whats the mcf browser? |
| 16:25:02 [ldodds] | * ldodds starts sewing his data suit |
| 16:25:08 [libby] | [timbl]: data is different shapes. some is square. some is very messy and linky and not suare at all |
| 16:25:17 [libby] | s/suare/square/ |
| 16:25:24 [libby] | ...need diff dbs for diff systems |
| 16:25:57 [shellac] | cerealtom: Name escapes me. Looking |
| 16:26:20 [libby] | ...asking a question of it - all the electrian at cern at a particular time when something was happeneing..joining very differently shaped things like this optimation - needs more research |
| 16:27:04 [libby] | [chris]:people are building data centres near poer ad a river - its a very interesting topic |
| 16:27:24 [libby] | [host]: a note form 1614: we are going to be overloadde with al these books! |
| 16:27:39 [shellac] | cerealtom: Doh! Hotsauce! I named brownsauce after it |
| 16:27:46 [libby] | [timbl]: we wpuld liketo meet any db engineers who are interested inbthis topic |
| 16:27:54 [cerealtom] | ta shellac |
| 16:28:15 [connolly__] | connolly__ has quit |
| 16:28:24 [nicolasnova] | “one of the diseases of this age is the multiplicity of books; they doth so overcharge the world that it is not able to digest the abundance of idle matter that is every day hatched and brought forth into the world“ Barnaby Rich (1580-1617), writing in 1613. |
| 16:28:33 [libby] | Q: [lady from beeb] - negroponte told her that tech would make us more asynchronous - how will semweb change our lives, philiosphcally? |
| 16:28:34 [cerealtom] | is this a "facebook gives you cancer" question? |
| 16:28:34 [dc_swig] | Label Q not found. |
| 16:28:42 [libby] | I liked the q |
| 16:28:51 [nicolasnova] | nicolasnova has quit |
| 16:29:04 [libby] | who wa sthat masked man! |
| 16:29:15 [cerealtom] | libby: yeah, actually it got better as it went on |
| 16:30:00 [libby] | [timbl]: imagine a calendar that linked into the music from a music event you were going to - so more connected. your life is connected but your computer doesn;t undersatd taht |
| 16:30:21 [libby] | ...yet |
| 16:30:57 [justben] | Heh. TimBL actually pronounced “danbri.” I thought I was the only one who did that. |
| 16:30:59 [BenO] | * BenO just noticed he handed to danbri, by saying '... Danbri' |
| 16:31:10 [libby] | [danbri]: social etworking sites - georgraphical clustering that separates populations form each other - can't make friend accross these divides very easily - orkut for a while big in iran, beebo and ireland |
| 16:31:27 [libby] | all the w3cers call him danbri - because dan connolly is dan to them :-) |
| 16:31:45 [reto] | reto has quit |
| 16:31:48 [libby] | ..social network group XG at w3c wotrth a look at that for interop |
| 16:31:55 [libby] | ...joining up nations! |
| 16:32:51 [libby] | [tom]: social etworks are on the web but not of the web ...uris for people will come ... and openid to claim identitied - can connect with peoepl on the web really |
| 16:33:12 [libby] | Q: to what extent is bandwidth a restriction on this stuff? |
| 16:33:14 [dc_swig] | Label Q not found. |
| 16:34:17 [libby] | [timbl]: for readwrite web it is important - stephen pemberton says that everyone should have own website; don't want to be owned by for example one job site. control - master of your data |
| 16:34:25 [libby] | ...in which case there may be a lot of traffic |
| 16:35:23 [cerealtom] | that was an almost clive anderson-like moment there from timbl |
| 16:35:41 [libby] | ...video - fractal nature of the web - some huge places, long tail of small things. CERN frighteningly large amount of data; also hidef moves, hidef 3d movies - but lots of stuff, images, phonecalls doesn;t stretch it. |
| 16:36:04 [libby] | [stephenp]: bw doubled every 10.5 months for the same price |
| 16:36:43 [shellac] | cerealtom: He insulted the bee gees? |
| 16:36:54 [libby] | [stephane]: in my area we people say we shoudl wait for higher bw phones etc - but we need to act today and not wait - lots is still possible |
| 16:37:31 [libby] | Q from webofthings guy: what are the concreete activities wrt the web of things area |
| 16:38:22 [libby] | [timbl]: sw and linked data applies well to sensor networks, your fridge on the web. any particular arae we shold be pursing you think? |
| 16:38:47 [libby] | questoiner: why not just use the web? |
| 16:39:09 [libby] | [timbl]: linked data web is the most effective way f talking about it now, but machine processib;e data aspect also imporatnt |
| 16:40:33 [libby] | [stephane]: w3c ubiquitous web domain + mobile web initiaitive + webapps wg + also voice, multimodel stuff; IMO, I've been in this domain for 10 years - industry not ready for standards yet, just exploratory |
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| 16:41:47 [libby] | [timbl]: ubiqutous screens might be sooner than we think - getting cheaper - in the future more and more screens - basiaclly device indepepndence |
| 16:42:22 [libby] | Q: commercial future of the web - how do you see commercial apps on top of sw and lnking data? |
| 16:42:24 [dc_swig] | Label Q not found. |
| 16:42:45 [libby] | [timbl]: do you mean without advertising? (because so much is ads based atm) |
| 16:43:35 [libby] | ...there's a lot of the web that has no ads - small part of the commercial aspect of the web. catalogues, etc. Lots of data that's commercially orientated but which has no ads |
| 16:44:20 [libby] | ..imagine a seller of cars with specs, links to models, availability, colour, - I want a red car in geneva |
| 16:44:36 [libby] | ...if you dont have one then you're gone |
| 16:44:48 [libby] | ...will be just like hte web - competitive advantage |
| 16:45:03 [libby] | .... |
| 16:45:10 [libby] | calling everyone form teh day onstage |
| 16:45:31 [connolly__] | connolly__ has joined #swig |
| 16:45:59 [libby] | ...and bye... |
| 16:46:03 [BenO] | libby++ - awesome scribing |
| 16:46:20 [BenO] | * BenO needs a drink now, not that he is suggestable... |
| 16:46:46 [MikeJ1971] | MikeJ1971 has quit |
| 16:47:00 [mischat] | libby++ for scribing |
| 16:47:10 [shellac] | shellac has quit |
| 16:47:16 [drrho] | drrho has quit |
| 16:47:55 [mhausenblas] | libby and Beno thanks! |
| 16:48:11 [mhausenblas] | BenO: will have my Guinness as well soon ;) |
| 16:48:37 [mhausenblas] | ok, now as this show is over the next is about to begin: |
| 16:48:38 [mhausenblas] | http://ld2sd.deri.org/pushback/fusion/ |
| 16:48:39 [dc_swig] | G: http://ld2sd.deri.org/pushback/fusion/ from mhausenblas |
| 16:48:43 [libby] | cheers all |
| 16:49:03 [mhausenblas] | G:| RDForms generator, demonstrator for the pushback fusion engine |
| 16:49:05 [dc_swig] | Titled item G. |
| 16:49:16 [mhausenblas] | G: create your own RDForm on the fly |
| 16:49:18 [dc_swig] | Added comment G1. |
| 16:49:24 [BenO] | mhausenblas++ - will play with this soon :) |
| 16:49:26 [shellac] | shellac has joined #swig |
| 16:49:39 [mhausenblas] | G: currently only <input type="text" ... implemented ... |
| 16:49:41 [dc_swig] | Added comment G2. |
| 16:49:43 [mhausenblas] | cool BenO |
| 16:49:46 [mhausenblas] | thanks |
| 16:50:10 [shellac] | shellac has quit |
| 16:50:21 [BenO] | mhausenblas, It'll most likely find a place in the edit forms for http://brii.medsci.ox.ac.uk/ |
| 16:50:27 [BenO] | well, 'forms' |
| 16:50:36 [mhausenblas] | G: other HTML field as of http://esw.w3.org/topic/PushBackDataToLegacySourcesRDForms to follow soon |
| 16:50:38 [dc_swig] | Added comment G3. |
| 16:50:52 [BenO] | I'm aiming for Flickr style in page editing of people, project, etc info |
| 16:50:57 [mhausenblas] | G: for an example output see http://ld2sd.deri.org/pushback/fusion/test.html |
| 16:50:58 [dc_swig] | Added comment G4. |
| 16:51:06 [mhausenblas] | very cool BenO |
| 16:51:37 [BenO] | So that the 'form' is injected into the RDFa already in the page |
| 16:51:42 [mhausenblas] | just note that this is just the begining |
| 16:51:52 [mhausenblas] | sounds great |
| 16:51:55 [BenO] | mhausenblas, Sure, but I like where it seems to be leading/ |
| 16:51:59 [BenO] | :) |
| 16:52:07 [mhausenblas] | gimme some more days and the fusion engine is ready to go |
| 16:52:22 [mhausenblas] | where? bleeding edge? |
| 16:52:26 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas looks behind him |
| 16:52:30 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas sees it |
| 16:52:38 [mhausenblas] | in the far distance |
| 16:52:38 [BenO] | heh, :) |
| 16:52:39 [mhausenblas] | :D |
| 16:53:03 [mhausenblas] | seriously, when we get this done, this will be the next big step in Web of Data |
| 16:53:26 [BenO] | r -> r/w |
| 16:53:35 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas preparing the Jira pushback screen cast before of to the FAWM |
| 16:53:41 [mhausenblas] | yeah, BenO++ |
| 16:53:58 [BenO] | FAWM? February Album Writing Month? |
| 16:54:00 [mhausenblas] | it opened my eyes - how could I have not seen this before |
| 16:54:10 [mhausenblas] | FAWM ... Friday after-work meeting |
| 16:54:18 [mhausenblas] | == drink till you ... |
| 16:54:21 [mhausenblas] | are tired |
| 16:54:25 [BenO] | indeed :) |
| 16:54:26 [ldodds] | mhausenblas: is there a diagram of how this hangs together (for my poor addled brain) |
| 16:54:30 [mhausenblas] | ldodds: |
| 16:54:35 [mhausenblas] | I'm doing it |
| 16:54:38 [mhausenblas] | after coding |
| 16:54:45 [mhausenblas] | that is, this weekend |
| 16:54:56 [mhausenblas] | my idea: have some running code |
| 16:55:02 [mhausenblas] | people can look at and play around |
| 16:55:10 [mhausenblas] | than abstract and paint diagrams ;) |
| 16:55:18 [ldodds] | there some indirection I'm not getting |
| 16:55:20 [mhausenblas] | have an eye on http://ld2sd.deri.org/pushback/fusion/test.html |
| 16:55:27 [mhausenblas] | sure, me neither ldodds |
| 16:55:36 [mhausenblas] | seriously |
| 16:55:39 [mhausenblas] | but that's fine |
| 16:56:00 [mhausenblas] | we can cut out and through out till it is really as simple as necessary but not simpler |
| 16:56:16 [mhausenblas] | when you get my point ... ;) |
| 16:56:34 [cerealtom] | mhausenblas: "403 Forbidden: The server understood the request, but is refusing to fulfill it." |
| 16:56:37 [mhausenblas] | I first tried to discuss on the abstract level, but there everybody reads something else |
| 16:56:40 [mhausenblas] | where? |
| 16:56:51 [mhausenblas] | cerealtom: at CERN as well? |
| 16:56:58 [mhausenblas] | whic URI, cerealtom |
| 16:57:23 [cerealtom] | mhausenblas: http://twitter.com/status/update |
| 16:57:32 [cerealtom] | unsuprisingly ;) |
| 16:57:35 [cerealtom] | i guess |
| 16:57:35 [ldodds] | mhausenblas: I've done some work on processing forms to generate RDF and apply updates, just trying to compare fusion with that |
| 16:57:59 [ldodds] | (nothing public unfortunately) |
| 16:58:10 [cerealtom] | mhausenblas: what should i put as a value in the Label field? |
| 16:58:34 [_psychic__] | _psychic__ has joined #swig |
| 16:59:07 [BenO] | cerealtom, It won't auth without some hidden fields IIRC about twitter api |
| 16:59:21 [_psychic__] | _psychic__ has quit |
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| 17:00:03 [cerealtom] | * cerealtom remains confused about what i'm seeing |
| 17:00:15 [mhausenblas] | cerealtom: just got a call from cygri (at CERN) sorry ... :) |
| 17:00:28 [mhausenblas] | cerealtom: what's the confusion - can I help ;) |
| 17:00:33 [BenO] | cerealtom, For me, it's not this precisely, but the idea of rdfa-ising form controls |
| 17:00:51 [BenO] | cerealtom, and sending back the rdf(a) via an AJAX push |
| 17:01:04 [cerealtom] | mhausenblas: np :) just trying http://ld2sd.deri.org/pushback/fusion/test.html and not sure what i'm supposed to see or enter |
| 17:01:05 [ldodds] | BenO: yep, I get that aspect |
| 17:01:08 [mhausenblas] | cerealtom: it only works with the pushbck_demo account |
| 17:01:21 [mhausenblas] | not there ;) |
| 17:01:21 [BenO] | To allow Flickr-style updating of information already RDFa-ised |
| 17:01:23 [mhausenblas] | here: http://ld2sd.deri.org/pushback/fusion/ |
| 17:01:41 [mhausenblas] | the http://ld2sd.deri.org/pushback/fusion/test.htm is just the *result* |
| 17:01:43 [cerealtom] | mhausenblas: ah, ok. will leave it for now and play another day :) |
| 17:01:47 [mhausenblas] | right |
| 17:01:49 [mhausenblas] | take care |
| 17:02:12 [ldodds] | What I've done in the past, which might be a useful extension (or might not, as I'm not sure I grok it yet) is some declarative ways to add behaviour to the form |
| 17:02:17 [mhausenblas] | ldodds: ah, interesting (re 'processing forms to generate RDF and apply updates') |
| 17:02:26 [mhausenblas] | example? |
| 17:02:36 [ldodds] | not public, but I could describe it if you're interested |
| 17:02:37 [mhausenblas] | behaviour as in cRUD |
| 17:02:39 [_psychic__] | _psychic__ has joined #swig |
| 17:02:40 [mhausenblas] | please |
| 17:03:39 [ldodds] | So I had a js library to handle serializing a form as RDF (actually RDF in JSON, but whatever), based on RDFa-style markup |
| 17:03:56 [ldodds] | But the js library also understood a microformat to add stuff like: |
| 17:04:01 [ldodds] | this section is repeatable |
| 17:04:17 [ldodds] | e.g. I might want to repeat a block that allows me to enter a list of contacts |
| 17:05:04 [ldodds] | So the form acquired the ability to add/remove sections, and the form -> RDF serialization code used the same markup to ensure it handled the serialization correctly |
| 17:05:09 [libby] | libby has quit |
| 17:05:44 [ldodds] | Actually populating the form with initial data was just done in the templating layer, using RDF extracted from the backend using CONSTRUCT queries |
| 17:06:20 [ldodds] | Writing the data back to the database involved taking the POSTed RDF, and then doing some graph algebra on that sub-graph, and the version available from the original CONSTRUCT |
| 17:06:36 [ldodds] | so the code didn't actually care what was being added or removed |
| 17:07:00 [BenO] | ldodds, Cool - what I was thinking about was injecting a 'form' around RDFa marked up text dynamically, so that alterations can be made and later on, the page committed back the server as RDFa. |
| 17:07:27 [ldodds] | yes |
| 17:07:49 [ldodds] | you probably still want some behaviour there though, even if just to handle form validation, repeated structures, etc |
| 17:08:17 [mmmmmrob] | mmmmmrob has quit |
| 17:08:18 [ldodds] | kwijibo has done some work on generating forms from RDF too |
| 17:08:37 [myakura] | myakura has quit |
| 17:09:31 [tobyink] | RDF/XML slash FOAF autodiscovery question : when following rel=meta, how many tools send a Referer header? |
| 17:09:46 [BenO] | ldodds, true enough, I was going to leave validation to be client+server side (as you attempt a change each triple, a che |
| 17:10:02 [BenO] | a check is fired off to the server, or in js. |
| 17:10:02 [tobyink] | (for anyone who knows) |
| 17:10:23 [BenO] | and in js* |
| 17:10:26 [ldodds] | BenO: I had both. Used declarative markup in HTML to attach JS based validation |
| 17:10:40 [ldodds] | and some RDF Schema annotations on the server side to validate individual properties |
| 17:10:46 [melvster] | ldodds: i think the old foaf-o-matic does a good job serializing a form, i reprogrammed it slighly to use jquery and property="foaf:nick" for example, rather than ids, with the idea to write something general to get rdf from a form where you can change form elements quite easily and the js will still serialize it, though ive not finished it yet, would hope to reuse a standard pattern |
| 17:10:51 [ldodds] | I also used similar technique to handle identifier assignments |
| 17:11:21 [ldodds] | melvster: yeah, I would have done it that way too if JQuery had been around :) |
| 17:11:25 [BenO] | ldodds, I'll make a note to try to steal^H^H^H^H learn from your code :) |
| 17:11:51 [ldodds] | well its not all out there yet, I'm rebuilding parts of it cos it was done as an internal project at previous employer |
| 17:12:01 [ldodds] | I've blogged/talked about aspects of it though |
| 17:12:12 [ldodds] | * ldodds realises thats a poor substitute to running code |
| 17:12:47 [BenO] | ldodds, I'm going to need to start doing it for the BRII project thingy soon as it's going to need smarter forms |
| 17:13:10 [cerealtom] | cerealtom has left #swig |
| 17:14:03 [ldodds] | If I were doing it now, I'd base it around RDFa, but the rest still holds together I think |
| 17:15:06 [BenO] | ldodds, I'm having a go at RDFa being the base currency - with indexes built from parsing it when create/modify actions hit it |
| 17:15:13 [mhausenblas] | ldodds: yes, kwijibo's work is referenced in puhback |
| 17:15:53 [mhausenblas] | main difference: due to the power of jQuery and rdfquery we can do everything client side now |
| 17:16:03 [mhausenblas] | beside the controller that talks with the RDF wrapper |
| 17:16:10 [mhausenblas] | due to XSS, you know ;) |
| 17:16:21 [mhausenblas] | nice type: puhback |
| 17:16:26 [mhausenblas] | typo |
| 17:16:47 [mhausenblas] | demand, /me should stop writing and start having Guinness ;) |
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| 17:17:00 [ldodds] | yes its about that time isn't it |
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| 17:17:04 [melvster] | the nice thing about doing things client side with js is that it's consistent with tabulator |
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| 17:19:23 [mhausenblas] | melvster: yes :) |
| 17:19:37 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas checking in code into svn |
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