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| 11:00:51 [logger-sioc-rdfa] | logger-sioc-rdfa has joined #swig |
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| 11:00:51 [grisham.freenode.net] | topic is: Semantic Web Interest Group 24x7 publicly logged hack-'n'-chat. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/interest/ http://swig.xmlhack.com/ [often confused with the Interface Generator http://www.swig.org/ ] |
| 11:00:51 [grisham.freenode.net] | Users on #swig: logger-sioc-rdfa Zach_Beauvais cygri BenO IvanHerman mischat aklassen kurtjx ldodds LotR jaimico1 timbl leobard pauld Paul_Miller gromgull Xanthor[aw] MikeJ1971 swh ephemerian mmmmmrob jaimico iand tobyink shellac FabGandon besbes minmax pesla dmiles_afk Wikier reto Freso drewp mhausenblas bengee sYskk linxeh MacTed Arnia jaresty karlcow gsnedders eikeon drobilla allisterb LeeF fgiasson DanC Tristan JibberJim bblfish evlist Yudai ericP sandro |
| 11:00:51 [grisham.freenode.net] | Users on #swig: kennyluck ivan dajobe earle mun phenny iv_an_ru PvK KjetilK beobal e271 edsu kasei iwaim Jerub dc_swig adileg Cloud_ workbench daniel-soton pjenvey kjetilkWork terraces xxv Shepard Anchakor ramsey monkeyiq logger deltab yvesr Tomothy shepazu david`bgk CaptSolo Leaving tuukkah sr dngor digikim_ simeoni |
| 11:01:37 [tobyink] | Example... |
| 11:01:47 [tobyink] | logger-sioc-rdfa, tell tobyink |
| 11:01:47 [tobyink] | phenny, phenny, tell tobyink that tobyink says see http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10#T11-01-47 |
| 11:01:48 [phenny] | logger-sioc-rdfa: I'll pass that on when tobyink is around. |
| 11:01:53 [tobyink] | Hello... |
| 11:01:53 [phenny] | tobyink: 11:01Z <logger-sioc-rdfa> tell tobyink that tobyink says see http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10#T11-01-47 |
| 11:03:08 [shellac] | logger-sioc-rdfa, tell logger-sioc-rdfa |
| 11:03:08 [shellac] | phenny, phenny, tell logger-sioc-rdfa that shellac says see http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10#T11-03-08 |
| 11:03:09 [phenny] | You can tell yourself that. |
| 11:03:22 [shellac] | curse your brains, phenny! |
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| 11:03:57 [tobyink] | C: [http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10#T11-01-47|Example log] which I'll keep running for a few hours. |
| 11:03:59 [dc_swig] | Added comment C5. |
| 11:04:44 [tobyink] | shellac: logger-sioc-rdfa ignores messages from phenny anyway. |
| 11:05:49 [tobyink] | C: @@TODO: make nicks of logger and phenny configurable command-line parameters. |
| 11:05:51 [dc_swig] | Added comment C6. |
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| 11:29:49 [melvster] | OAuth interesting: 5.4.2. WWW-Authenticate Header |
| 11:29:50 [phenny] | melvster: 08:52Z <mhausenblas> tell melvster re pushback authentication see http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2009-03-10#T08-46-21 |
| 11:30:02 [melvster] | Service Providers MAY indicate their support for the extension by returning the OAuth HTTP WWW-Authenticate header upon Consumer requests for Protected Resources. As per [RFC2617] such a response MAY include additional HTTP WWW-Authenticate headers: |
| 11:30:10 [melvster] | WWW-Authenticate: OAuth realm="http://sp.example.com/" |
| 11:30:38 [melvster] | mhausenblas: thx, will write something up today |
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| 11:37:39 [mhausenblas] | logger-sioc-rdfa help |
| 11:37:53 [mhausenblas] | logger-sioc-rdfa, help me please, I need it :) |
| 11:38:14 [mhausenblas] | wow, a verbose bot ;) |
| 11:38:19 [mhausenblas] | great work, tobyink |
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| 11:38:35 [mhausenblas] | logger-sioc-rdfa: bookmark |
| 11:38:35 [mhausenblas] | See http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10.html#T11-38-35 |
| 11:39:05 [mhausenblas] | can the sioc logger please use the same 'pointer' command :)? |
| 11:39:48 [tobyink] | mhausenblas: it does. |
| 11:39:51 [tobyink] | logger, help |
| 11:39:51 [logger] | The commands I know are: |
| 11:39:52 [logger] | silence - Stop logging (also: stop, off, ...) |
| 11:39:54 [logger] | listen - Start logging (also: start, on, ...) |
| 11:39:55 [logger] | bookmark - Give the URI of the current log |
| 11:39:56 [logger] | chump LETTER - Record the URI of the current log under chump LETTER |
| 11:39:57 [logger] | I respond to 'logger, command' in public and '/msg logger command' in private |
| 11:39:58 [logger] | Logging Policy: All public output is logged if I am listening except for |
| 11:39:59 [logger] | any lines starting [off]. All commands to me are logged. |
| 11:40:00 [logger] | My public output is logged but these lines are not searchable. |
| 11:40:01 [logger] | The logs are at http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/ |
| 11:40:02 [logger] | Do logger, adminhelp for help on administrative commands |
| 11:40:23 [tobyink] | Note that it also lists "bookmark" as the command. "pointer" is an alias. |
| 11:40:28 [mhausenblas] | ah, thanks |
| 11:40:59 [mhausenblas] | the http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10.rdf causes Tabulator to say: badly formed XML |
| 11:41:58 [emrojo] | emrojo has left #swig |
| 11:46:33 [melvster] | It is RECOMMENDED that Service Providers accept the HTTP Authorization header. Consumers SHOULD be able to send OAuth Protocol Parameters in the OAuth Authorization header. |
| 11:46:58 [melvster] | so in oauth they want to place key value pairs in the HTTP header |
| 11:47:33 [mintsauce] | mintsauce has quit |
| 11:47:56 [melvster] | (i think) |
| 11:49:14 [melvster] | header looks like this: http://esw.pastebin.com/m25626500 |
| 11:52:30 [mhausenblas] | http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenDataGoodPractice |
| 11:52:31 [dc_swig] | D: http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenDataGoodPractice from mhausenblas |
| 11:52:55 [mhausenblas] | D:| Good Practices Collection for LOD Publishing and Discovery |
| 11:52:56 [dc_swig] | Titled item D. |
| 11:53:16 [mhausenblas] | D: yet another wish-list? depends on YOU! ;) |
| 11:53:18 [dc_swig] | Added comment D1. |
| 11:53:34 [tobyink] | mhausenblas: http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/ is able to read http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10.rdf. Perhaps you visited during a write operation, when the file was not fully out to disk? |
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| 12:00:56 [tobyink] | SPARQL autodiscovery: <p xmlns:v="http://rdfs.org/ns/void#" typeof="v:Dataset"><span xmlns:f="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/" rel="f:homepage" resource="">This website's</span> <a rel="v:sparqlEndpoint" href="/sparql">SPARQL endpoint</a></p> |
| 12:03:37 [cygri] | i'm booking flights using mhausenblas' credit card |
| 12:03:42 [cygri] | i owe him 75 pints now |
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| 12:14:26 [melvster] | cygri: i think there is a beer owing ontology |
| 12:16:03 [ldodds] | there is: http://purl.org/net/schemas/quaffing |
| 12:17:46 [melvster] | ldodds++ thanks, that's the one! :) |
| 12:18:04 [ldodds] | np, now you owe me a beer :) |
| 12:18:26 [melvster] | ill add it to my ledger :) |
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| 12:22:57 [melvster] | here's the thread i read: http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-dev/2002-December/004625.html |
| 12:23:12 [melvster] | foaf:beerTokens |
| 12:29:03 [mhausenblas] | oh you silly people, go back to work! |
| 12:29:05 [mhausenblas] | :) |
| 12:29:17 [mhausenblas] | * mhausenblas ruined |
| 12:29:27 [mhausenblas] | cygri has crashed the limit |
| 12:29:29 [mhausenblas] | :D |
| 12:30:24 [mhausenblas] | tobyink: yes, re http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10.rdf |
| 12:30:32 [mhausenblas] | but read what I said ;) |
| 12:30:39 [mhausenblas] | *Tabulator* says ... |
| 12:30:40 [mhausenblas] | ;) |
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| 12:43:28 [tobyink] | Ah. Tabulator doesn't parse XML properly? |
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| 12:52:27 [bblfish] | anyone know what CIFPs are called in OWL2 http://esw.w3.org/topic/CIFP |
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| 13:03:18 [shellac] | bblfish: I think you want 'keys' |
| 13:03:28 [bblfish] | ah yes, thanks |
| 13:04:15 [bblfish] | * bblfish just in the middle of writing a paper, and not much time left |
| 13:04:37 [melvster] | bblfish: btw, i liked this: "Identification is the process whereby a network element recognizes a valid user's identity. Authentication is the process of verifying the claimed identity of a user." |
| 13:05:29 [bblfish] | yes, but I find the first part is nearly empty |
| 13:05:31 [bblfish] | "dentification is the process whereby a network element recognizes a valid user's identity" |
| 13:05:42 [melvster] | Once an agent identifies you have a trust score on how authentic you think they are, once they authenticate that trust score is increased |
| 13:06:12 [bblfish] | I'd prefer to go back to the etymology of the word, and see that authentication is about verifying authorship |
| 13:06:25 [bblfish] | I think wikipedia has a much more detailed and interesting article |
| 13:06:51 [bblfish] | see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authentication |
| 13:07:44 [bblfish] | but well, I am probably wrong |
| 13:07:49 [bblfish] | :-) |
| 13:08:15 [bblfish] | mhh perhaps not: In art, antiques, and anthropology, a common problem is verifying that a given artifact was produced by a certain famous person, or was produced in a certain place or period of history. |
| 13:08:44 [bblfish] | I think the security people are mixing up identification and authentication |
| 13:09:13 [bblfish] | because they don't usually have cases that keep them seperated |
| 13:11:24 [melvster] | seems to be quite a few approaches |
| 13:12:33 [melvster] | i also think the mere act of identification covers authentication in the vast majority of cases |
| 13:15:10 [melvster] | given that the vast majority of users will identify themselves in authentic way, you can infer by bayes theorem, that identification probably gives somewhere close to a 99% trust level that the user is authetnic, of course the 1% is important because you can cause a lot of damage with identity theft, so authentication is also key to increasing that to close to 100% |
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| 13:18:41 [melvster] | to put it another way, just as in the real world, identifying yourself is normally good enough for a good confidence level, if you call a friend up and say 'its me', normally that will be good enough for them to disclose some information to you |
| 13:25:05 [bblfish] | well identification is one thing only. Verifying that a name refers to you |
| 13:25:44 [bblfish] | when a clients sends a cert it sends it's public key. The server verifies the public key in the TLS protocol. At that point it has identified the client |
| 13:26:31 [bblfish] | 2. When the server then authenticates the certificate as belonging to the CA, it can than identify the client with the client DN - again an identification step |
| 13:26:32 [melvster] | yes i guess in a way every client is a number, and that number is their public key |
| 13:27:18 [bblfish] | ( a public key is a relation between a formula and values for variables ) |
| 13:27:36 [bblfish] | so authentication is just different |
| 13:27:44 [bblfish] | that comes when one decides did X write Y |
| 13:27:51 [bblfish] | or does X belong to Y |
| 13:27:55 [bblfish] | stuff like that |
| 13:28:48 [bblfish] | Anyway, my claim is that if you make a distintion liket that the two words start having an interesting sense |
| 13:29:18 [bblfish] | but perhaps, they just are inextricably linked |
| 13:30:00 [bblfish] | (I can't quite decide) I 'll have to see if it helps clarify things to make the distinction. If it does not then there is no point pushing it further |
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| 13:39:35 [melvster] | theres some interesting points in the wiki article discussion tab |
| 13:39:45 [melvster] | Strictly speaking, the types of authentication are: |
| 13:39:45 [melvster] | Something only the user is |
| 13:39:45 [melvster] | Something only the user has |
| 13:39:45 [melvster] | Something only the user knows |
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| 14:29:58 [dajobe] | http://www.guardian.co.uk/data-store |
| 14:29:59 [dc_swig] | E: http://www.guardian.co.uk/data-store from dajobe |
| 14:30:09 [dajobe] | E:|Guardian (UK newpaper) data store |
| 14:30:10 [dc_swig] | Titled item E. |
| 14:37:25 [mischat] | dajobe: interesting, most of it looks like it is exposed in google code spreedsheets |
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| 14:40:22 [dajobe] | that's a shame |
| 14:40:51 [dajobe] | E:see [http://simonwillison.net/2009/Mar/10/openplatform/|simon willison's notes] |
| 14:40:52 [dc_swig] | Added comment E1. |
| 14:41:42 [dajobe] | E:there's an API as well as store |
| 14:41:43 [dc_swig] | Added comment E2. |
| 14:42:26 [dajobe] | E:[http://www.guardian.co.uk/open-platform/what-is-the-open-platform|What is the Open platform?] |
| 14:42:28 [dc_swig] | Added comment E3. |
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| 15:29:56 [cygri] | ping mhausenblas |
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| 15:41:47 [mhausenblas] | poing cygri |
| 15:41:50 [mhausenblas] | ;) |
| 15:42:01 [mhausenblas] | whatzup lad |
| 15:43:23 [mhausenblas] | not that you couldn't lift your a.. and walk over the 5m, no |
| 15:43:31 [mhausenblas] | :P |
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| 18:22:43 [bblfish] | do people agree with this rule: |
| 18:22:44 [bblfish] | { ?resource log:semantics [ log:includes { ?resource ?r ?o } ] } |
| 18:22:44 [bblfish] | => { ?resource ?r ?o } . |
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| 18:28:39 [bblfish] | btw, the above is a key element for linked data |
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| 18:56:52 [bblfish] | or is that only true if |
| 18:57:24 [bblfish] | * bblfish { ?a ?r ?b . |
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| 18:57:38 [bblfish] | oops |
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| 18:58:39 [bblfish] | { ?a ?r ?b . ?a log:semantics [ log:includes { ?a ?rel ?o } ] => { ?a ?rel ?o } |
| 18:59:16 [bblfish] | that is if you already believe some statement, then you believe the log semantics of it's individual components |
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| 19:16:14 [Shepard] | reading http://simonwillison.net/2009/Mar/10/openplatform/ I wonder if "REST-ish" is the new "RESTful" for those that don't want to get laughed at by fielding |
| 19:16:25 [Shepard] | *those who |
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| 19:20:14 [dajobe] | REST-ish means 'uses GET' |
| 19:20:46 [melvster] | "You must either replace (by re-requesting) or delete all OPG Content you hold (whether or not published on Your Website) at least every 24 hours." |
| 19:21:18 [melvster] | personally I think that's fine, but it's interesting how you'd fomulate a strategy to cope with data that expires |
| 19:21:26 [shellac] | dajobe: how dare you. it use get, and the uris are of the form /api/items/item |
| 19:21:36 [shellac] | that's rest-ish |
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| 19:22:05 [shellac] | it's all about nice looking uris |
| 19:25:47 [shellac] | now I can read the api docs it looks ok. they pass around uris, so good for them |
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| 20:28:29 [mhausenblas] | good night Web Of Data |
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| 21:20:50 [gsnedders] | http://stuff.gsnedders.com/w3c.refer — it works! |
| 21:20:52 [dc_swig] | F: http://stuff.gsnedders.com/w3c.refer from gsnedders |
| 21:21:14 [gsnedders] | * gsnedders needs to stop accidently linking things like that |
| 21:21:34 [gsnedders] | That basically takes the RDF TR list, runs a couple of SPARQL queries, and spits that out |
| 21:23:33 [dajobe] | gosh refer. that's like... before people forgot about bibtex |
| 21:24:00 [gsnedders] | Well, it's easier to parse than BibTeX |
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| 21:25:39 [gsnedders] | (I was originally going to use BibTeX, then I started looking at parsers, realized they all only coped with a small subset, tried to write my own, realized why they only coped with a small subset, and switched to using refer.) |
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| 22:04:51 [sandro] | webcam now running at CSWG..... |
| 22:05:16 [sandro] | (but no audio, because... well.... normally I'm using a teleconference system at the same time.) |
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