00:06:27 aklassen has quit 00:12:33 harbulot has quit 00:23:59 danbri has quit 00:46:13 PvK_ has joined #swig 00:47:55 I just got an idea - could rdf stores be secured against the hosting provider by encrypting the triples using asym. keys? 00:50:26 hmm but it would work only for graphs - no sparql 00:51:00 shellac has quit 00:52:23 anyway Im off to sleep now... there is always tomorrow to think 00:54:17 PvK has quit 01:00:07 libby has quit 01:02:06 Arnia has quit 01:06:49 minmax_ has quit 01:07:54 Arnia has joined #swig 01:35:10 melvster has joined #swig 01:38:53 Anchakor: you could encrypt the sparql query terms too, then run it through some kind of parser that queries the encrypted triplestore so every triple s p o becomes e(s) e(p) e(o), you need this also in the sparql, maybe the bnodes and namespaces get a bit mangled though, not sure ... 01:38:54 melvster: 11 Mar 06:47Z tell melvster re pushback auth - thanks! and see http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-11.html#T06-10-35 for comments 01:42:04 mhausenblas: good point, what i meant was RDF source and non RDF destination, will explain tomorrow :) 01:42:08 melvster has left #swig 01:45:26 Tomothy has quit 01:45:26 chimezie has quit 01:46:43 chimezie has joined #swig 01:46:43 Tomothy has joined #swig 01:55:26 chimezie has quit 02:20:05 Derek has joined #swig 02:20:53 Derek has left #swig 03:05:59 JibberJim has quit 03:09:40 oshani has left #swig 03:35:45 TedThibodeauJr has joined #swig 03:40:39 caedes has quit 03:45:06 MacTed has quit 04:17:58 jaresty_ has joined #swig 04:30:45 jaresty has quit 05:09:07 jansc has joined #swig 05:20:05 jansc has quit 05:41:56 mhausenblas has joined #swig 05:43:26 good morning Web of Data 05:46:52 it's not morning yet over here... 06:02:53 Leaving has quit 06:06:59 Leaving has joined #swig 06:15:03 phenny: tell melvster, yeah, but downside of encrypting individual nodes (instead of triples) would be that it could be really weak against statistic attack - guessing most used nodes 06:15:04 Anchakor: I'll pass that on when melvster is around. 06:30:27 Zach_Beauvais has joined #swig 06:37:42 twanj has quit 06:48:10 gsnedders has quit 06:52:33 dajobe: no? why are you up then :) 06:52:53 dajobe, thanks again for adding the WoD DAU blog 06:55:44 adi112358 has joined #swig 06:56:43 adi112358 has quit 06:58:22 bengee has joined #swig 06:58:33 Paul_Miller has joined #swig 07:01:54 xxv has quit 07:05:19 cbichis has joined #swig 07:05:35 cbichis has left #swig 07:05:38 xxv has joined #swig 07:11:11 hg has quit 07:11:50 Leaving has quit 07:14:44 Leaving has joined #swig 07:34:25 jansc has joined #swig 07:35:00 pauld has joined #swig 07:37:58 Wikier has joined #swig 07:40:06 logger has quit 07:43:30 Freso has joined #swig 07:46:03 Leaving has quit 07:48:17 pesla has joined #swig 07:52:32 reto has joined #swig 08:01:24 Leaving has joined #swig 08:02:34 besbes has joined #swig 08:03:29 pauld has quit 08:04:15 besbes has quit 08:07:20 leobard has joined #swig 08:12:19 FrederikSOlesen has joined #swig 08:13:42 Freso has quit 08:15:31 minmax_ has joined #swig 08:16:50 xxv has quit 08:19:35 xxv has joined #swig 08:22:00 timbl has joined #swig 08:28:15 xxv has quit 08:28:28 reto has quit 08:29:06 xxv has joined #swig 08:32:28 caedes has joined #swig 08:33:35 besbes has joined #swig 08:36:25 tlr has joined #swig 08:38:00 FabGandon has joined #swig 08:40:28 eisi__ has joined #swig 08:42:22 Does anyone of you know about a example on how to connect one of the more popular public ontologies like wine oder pizza with RDFa? Isn't RDFa meant to be a way to insert individuals into an ontology? 08:45:20 IvanHerman has joined #swig 08:45:34 right, so re pushback's RDForm/fusion: the first prototype is now available at http://ld2sd.deri.org/pushback/fusion/ 08:46:55 eisi__: what do you mean with 'connect' 08:49:10 RDFa is a way to deploy an RDF graph in HTML. don't confuse schema level with instance level ;) 08:51:02 eisi__: have a look at http://rdfa.info/wiki/Tutorials first and then you may wanna come back? 08:52:44 leobard has quit 08:53:13 JibberJim has joined #swig 08:53:24 I'll try not to mix it up :) I know the tutorials-site, I'll have a look if there's an example online which might explain my question better 08:53:53 eisi__: you are not totally wrong re 'to insert individuals into an ontology' 08:54:09 but why wasting time with wine or pizza? 08:54:17 think a long real stuff 08:54:29 hehe I love pizza _and_ wine, it's just the most famous examples out there ;-) 08:54:38 I'm working on a ontology for requirements engineering 08:54:39 we have wasted the past 8 years anyway in focusing on these toy examples 08:54:52 good. that sounds better ;) 08:54:57 hehe okay, I'll never mention those again :) 08:55:04 even better! 08:55:05 ;) 08:55:17 so, what you actually wanna do is: 08:55:28 1. identify/create a vocabulary 08:55:41 (voc and onto is interchangeable) 08:55:57 I prefer voc as it seems simpler and most often means: non-OWL 08:56:05 RDF Schema only, you get it? 08:56:06 okay, simple example with requirements-stuff: You have a requirement "A" which is based on 5 frameworks. I have a corresponding class for the requirements and a "isBasedOn"-objectproperty 08:57:06 ok 08:57:15 yes, I have my vocabulary so far, maybe not complete, but hey :) 08:57:21 good! 08:57:26 so, next: 08:57:31 you want to deploy it 08:57:42 pauld has joined #swig 08:57:57 so, you think about what your main target is 08:58:48 I want xhtml/rdfa to help me doing this: I have a html-text (which is a simple plain requirement-text), I want to add RDFa around it to tell it "A" is a requirement. "A" is based on (isBasedOn-property) this and that... 08:58:56 very good 08:59:07 So it is possible ja? ;) 08:59:09 eisi__: I'd suggest you post it to public-rdfa list 08:59:12 sure!!! 08:59:16 Hehe fine :) 08:59:27 So that's what I wanted to express with my first question 08:59:30 one example on the schema level is: 08:59:39 .g scovo rdf 08:59:39 mhausenblas: http://sw.joanneum.at/scovo/schema.html 08:59:42 yep 09:00:38 that's actually a schema defined in RDFa 09:00:40 ;) 09:01:02 okay let me have a look, where's the RDFa :) 09:01:56 aaaah! very nice 09:04:54 * mhausenblas BIAB 09:09:46 kwijibo has joined #swig 09:11:14 jhalv has joined #swig 09:15:39 libby has joined #swig 09:15:51 Zach_Beauvais has quit 09:17:03 reto has joined #swig 09:20:18 tuukkah has joined #swig 09:20:47 tobyink has joined #swig 09:26:09 swh has joined #swig 09:27:28 mhausenblas: I think I got it, what I meant with "instance" is the typeof attribute. What I want to to is sth like

A super requirement

even more foo about my requirement!

bases on

$next_requirement_div

09:30:31 jhalv has left #swig 09:31:13 jhalv has joined #swig 09:36:12 what would the RDF triple look like? 09:36:22 should look like, so to say, eisi__ 09:37:14 I would say: "A super requirement" isBasedOn $next_requirement... 09:37:21 ok. gimme a sec 09:37:31 I'll put an example online, right? 09:37:47 if you have time I appreciate it very much :) 09:37:58 sure, that's what I'm here for ;) 09:38:05 nice job ;) 09:38:20 * mhausenblas is the RDFa first-level support on #swig :D 09:38:25 hehe :) 09:38:41 you owe me a beer, then, you know that, right? ;) 09:38:54 * mhausenblas firing up ftp 09:39:22 If you're in or near Bavaria you can have it pretty soon ;-) 09:39:29 Coal-powered FTP client? 09:39:54 * mhausenblas slaps tobyink with 20k DBpedia triples 09:40:02 gromgull has joined #swig 09:40:12 ouch 09:40:18 please people, let me work, now ;) 09:40:44 I thought this *was* your work. 09:40:56 ;) 09:41:02 * mhausenblas editing RDFa 09:41:20 * mhausenblas notes: really hard working conditions 09:41:34 tobyink: did you check out the pushback fusion, yet? 09:41:43 just went out via RDFa list ... 09:42:30 mhausenblas: I can't image better working conditions than getting paid by _beer_ :) 09:42:53 Not yet - only been keeping half an eye on pushback, but looks interesting. 09:43:55 melvster has joined #swig 09:44:35 mhausenblas: I changed this to == Authentication for the non RDF destination == (s/source/destination) it was a bit confusing before 09:44:36 melvster: 06:15Z tell melvster yeah, but downside of encrypting individual nodes (instead of triples) would be that it could be really weak against statistic attack - guessing most used nodes 09:44:53 ta melvster 09:45:00 eisi__: http://www.thomas-eisenbarth.de/ontologies/2009/0/ON-RT.owl doesn't deref 09:45:04 uh 09:45:07 you're right 09:45:07 put it at that location ;) 09:45:15 firing up scp ... ;-) 09:46:50 done 09:48:15 mmmmmrob has joined #swig 09:48:34 mmmmmrob has quit 09:48:41 ok, eisi__ 09:49:03 now serve it with the right media type ... 09:49:04 :) 09:50:47 hm, which one? 09:50:55 caedes has quit 09:51:22 eisi__: application/rdf+xml 09:51:27 eisi__: see http://sw-app.org/rdfa/req-example.html 09:51:31 does this help? 09:52:19 okay, I need just a second to find out howto tell the apache in this shared hosting-environment thing 09:52:29 OK, so I press "generate form" and I get some non-well-formed XML generated. Then I click "preview" and a big black box opens up with a white rectangle in it? 09:53:01 eisi__: in .htaccess "AddType application/rdf+xml .owl" 09:53:24 eisi__: or http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/extract?uri=http://sw-app.org/rdfa/req-example.html 09:53:31 if you prefer RDF/XML 09:53:39 tobyink: 09:54:01 so, do you use the default values 09:54:05 or something else? 09:54:41 * mhausenblas notes that this is the very first prototype thought to elicit feedback on the fusion process 09:54:54 not a product one could readily use out of the box ;) 09:55:10 thanks tobyink 09:55:35 default values 09:56:00 so, the output should be a RDFa decorated HTML form 09:56:02 no? 09:56:08 is there a channel about Protege? 09:56:57 BenO has joined #swig 09:57:01 tobyink: what is non-well formed. I don't get it ... 09:57:02 ldodds has joined #swig 09:57:03 Leaving: maybe I can help you, what's your question? 09:57:07 seems ok to me 09:57:28 ldodds has left #swig 09:57:29 this means no, right? 09:57:33 There is some RDFa output, but the form has no input elements inside it (just two nested DIVs) and no tag to close it. 09:57:47 Tested in Firefox (2) and Opera (10) 09:57:57 is there a console version of protege> 09:58:01 iand has joined #swig 09:58:17 tobyink: you're right, missed the /form 09:58:21 damn ;) 09:58:30 yeah, true, the rest is missing :) 09:58:46 too much to do now to implement it, but on weekend 09:58:53 Leaving: a console version? uhm, the sense of the tool is that it is graphical, what do you want to do? 09:59:20 the thing is that I *think* I have now a generic fusion algorithm 09:59:31 this means no, right? 10:00:16 mischat has joined #swig 10:00:17 so, tobyink, you are right with all the things, but these are really minor issues to me given the overall task getting my head through processing RDF+HTML in parallel to create the RDForm ;) 10:00:45 so, I guess, I maybe was to early in announcing it ;( 10:00:58 but I really want feedback on the fusion process 10:01:11 and it is rather hard to discuss if there is nothing on the table 10:01:17 beside a Wiki entry 10:01:43 now, tobyink, we have running (even if not entirely good) code on which bases we can discuss 10:01:49 you get the point? 10:03:07 Sorry, but not really. Can't say that I fully understand the diagramme on the wiki page. Hopefully when there is working code I'll be able to look at it and have that "aha!" moment. 10:04:00 ldodds has joined #swig 10:04:22 yes! 10:04:30 you got it tobyink -you're my hero ;) 10:04:41 btw, fixed the form close tag sutff ;) 10:05:59 The form is still empty though (apart from a couple of DIVs). If I copy and paste the input elements from the html form to the rdf form where I think they're supposed to go, will that make the preview work? 10:07:07 tobyink: as I said ... I have to implement it for all field type values (select, textarea, etc.) 10:07:38 BUT: the principle fusion algorithm (RDF-graph driven + HTML @id lookup) is in place 10:07:39 Label BUT not found. 10:07:39 ok? 10:07:48 shut up, bot ;) 10:08:29 I'd be more than happy if someone does it better :D 10:09:02 as I said, I'm no developer and this was really painful for me; took me two days (to be fair, I was not familiar with rdfquery and jQuery before) 10:09:10 Have read this now - http://esw.w3.org/topic/PushBackDataToLegacySourcesRDForms - and think I more or less understand the idea. 10:09:19 really? great! 10:09:47 tobyink: did you read http://esw.w3.org/topic/PushBackDataToLegacySourcesFusion as well? 10:10:09 Not yet 10:10:26 not too much there but the general structure of the fusion process 10:10:40 feel free to add comments, note stuff or ask inline :) 10:11:04 OK, so the idea is this (correct me if I'm wrong) an HTML form is annotated (automatically??) with RDFa in order to generate a bunch of triples that describe the form. 10:11:33 Then a user agent can look at these triples and decide how to pump data into the form, and thus onto the website which the form belongs to. 10:11:51 simply put: yes :) 10:12:07 as you know we have SPARQL Update 10:12:26 but only very few real-world site have triple stores, right? 10:12:34 I personally know none 10:12:40 but they have Web 2.0 APIs 10:12:49 If the HTML form can be annotated automatically, why does it need to be annotated at all? Why can't the user agent that's pushing the data apply the same techniques directly? 10:13:04 to decouple the process 10:13:16 the (manual) mapping is required once 10:13:24 then there will be write-wrapper 10:13:41 basically the same as DBpedia, flicker wrapper, etc 10:13:45 do for the read-part 10:13:47 right? 10:13:57 Ah, OK, so there is a mapping between the RDF description of the form, and the RDF data, and that needs to be done manually? 10:14:02 the same can be done for the write-part of the API 10:14:07 yes 10:14:13 I was doing something like this as my first attempt: then using jquery to grab the foaf:nick and then serialize, seems quite similar to fusion? 10:14:21 *any* vocabulary -> RDForms voc 10:14:41 well, your snippet is a RDForms, yes ;) 10:14:52 and the processing is done generically 10:15:15 without any dependence on the domain vocabualry (such as FOAF here) 10:15:32 that's why we need the mapping ;) 10:16:28 MikeJ1971 has joined #swig 10:17:12 shellac has joined #swig 10:17:53 minmax_ has quit 10:18:33 but i presume the foaf namespace can be also referenced from the document? 10:19:04 MikeJ1971_ has joined #swig 10:21:08 ah i see you're putting in key values for the form elements 10:21:27 what i did was i pulled out the property as the key, and used val() in jQuery for the value 10:22:26 MikeJ1971_ has quit 10:26:32 melvster: might also be possible, you should add to discussion on the Wiki 10:26:50 I'm not claiming that this is the simplest possible solution, yet 10:27:09 but it is (1) generic, that is doesn't depend on the domain vocabualry 10:27:43 and hence the generation AND the parsing can be done in a uniform way 10:27:50 (2) it seems to work 10:27:52 ;) 10:28:26 that's always a plus :) ok will read over it more, need to understand rdfa better, it's an important technique 10:30:11 thanks melvster 10:30:26 and put any questions and comments there as well 10:30:37 .. it's a Wiki, at the end of the day ;) 10:31:02 ive been playing around with foaf activity streams: http://foaf.me/activity.php?uri=http://foaf.me/danbri , im trying to extract rss/atom feeds from a FOAF and was wondering the best way, i pull out accounts now, and will do weblogs, i know knowee does seeAlso, is there any standard techniques for discovering activity from an RDF source? 10:31:13 leobard has joined #swig 10:31:59 Paul_Miller has quit 10:33:01 FrederikSOlesen has quit 10:43:32 melvster: looks at Google's SGAPI? 10:44:41 minmax_ has joined #swig 10:44:41 It allows you to put in the a URI for a person (not their URI in the RDF sense, but rather the URI of a page they own) and get back a list of Atom/RSS feeds (amongst other things). 10:45:03 ah yes 10:45:06 good point 10:45:40 FrederikSOlesen has joined #swig 10:46:11 I have a little RDF vocab that the output of SGAPI can be mapped onto easily - http://buzzword.org.uk/rdf/personal-link-types# 10:46:22 minmax_ has quit 10:46:52 aklassen has joined #swig 10:46:55 minmax has joined #swig 10:47:06 very nice! 10:48:14 im not sure sgapi said how they do their parsing and processing, last time i looked 10:50:21 I was meaning to look into it further about a month or so ago and sent myself this link - http://is.gd/n2t9 10:52:18 oh your homepage is rdfa, nice 10:52:46 It has been for a month or so. 10:53:07 SGAPI gets their data through FOAF and hCard+XFN. 10:53:33 Plus (I imagine) a number of site-specific techniques for some larger sites. 10:54:12 And by "FOAF" it means tag soup XML with a FOAF namespace declaration. 10:55:04 i think the sgapi people are now using the redland libs 10:55:18 but dont quote me on that, will try and dig up URL in a bit 10:55:37 or am I thinking searchmonkey 10:55:40 mmm 10:59:45 im wondering how they discover which fields are rss or atom 11:01:16 if i can find those fields then i can pass them to a php feed reader (i use simplepie) and then see some kind of activity stream in the foaf-o-sphere 11:03:57 so far foaf:holdsAccount foaf:accountProfilePage and foaf:weblog seem to be quite a good signal 11:05:23 Zach_Beauvais has joined #swig 11:07:59 karlcow has quit 11:08:19 aklassen has quit 11:08:24 pauld has quit 11:15:16 aklassen has joined #swig 11:16:10 FrederikSOlesen has quit 11:16:30 jaresty_ has quit 11:29:45 is there any sparql test app testing what features the tested sparql endpoint supports? 11:31:15 that would be good 11:32:21 i was wondering recently if there was an app for testing compliancy - that it rejects invalid queries, follows the protocol correctly etc 11:33:04 there is a sparql command line tool, which gives you a sql type shell, I use this to check if a sparql endpoint actually speaks the sparql protocol 11:33:05 http://github.com/tialaramex/sparql-query/tree/master 11:33:06 A: http://github.com/tialaramex/sparql-query/tree/master from mischat 11:33:20 A:| sparql command line client 11:33:22 Titled item A. 11:33:43 kwijibo: exactly 11:41:42 tlr has quit 11:43:43 emrojo has joined #swig 11:46:48 shellac has quit 11:50:22 Arnia has quit 12:03:56 beobal has joined #swig 12:05:28 aklassen has quit 12:08:07 jaresty has joined #swig 12:19:20 kW has joined #swig 12:21:01 pauld has joined #swig 12:22:46 aklassen has joined #swig 12:31:36 libby has quit 12:33:40 TedThibodeauJr has quit 12:34:27 aklassen is now known as XdF`work 12:35:16 allisterb_ has quit 12:44:29 karlcow has joined #swig 12:46:41 harbulot has joined #swig 12:52:31 pauld has quit 13:04:27 tlr has joined #swig 13:07:59 Arnia has joined #swig 13:30:40 allisterb has joined #swig 13:34:50 MacTed has joined #swig 13:41:22 myakura has joined #swig 13:42:39 mintsauce has joined #swig 13:42:58 mintsauce has quit 13:46:46 MacTed has quit 13:46:46 Zach_Beauvais has quit 13:46:46 Wikier has quit 13:48:57 MacTed has joined #swig 13:48:57 Zach_Beauvais has joined #swig 13:48:57 Wikier has joined #swig 13:56:36 myakura has quit 13:57:44 LeeF has quit 14:03:10 myakura has joined #swig 14:14:46 Zach_Beauvais has quit 14:14:46 Wikier has quit 14:14:47 MacTed has quit 14:15:10 MacTed has joined #swig 14:15:10 Zach_Beauvais has joined #swig 14:15:10 Wikier has joined #swig 14:18:40 LeeF has joined #swig 14:25:41 leobard has quit 14:28:37 justben has joined #swig 14:32:32 Arnia has quit 14:33:21 Arnia has joined #swig 14:40:50 timbl has quit 14:50:55 lheuer has joined #swig 15:01:35 jansc has quit 15:06:47 leobard has joined #swig 15:06:50 jsoltren has joined #swig 15:10:27 kang has joined #swig 15:10:41 Arnia has quit 15:10:46 kang has left #swig 15:11:43 Arnia has joined #swig 15:14:56 evlist has quit 15:15:08 jsoltren has quit 15:17:35 fgiasson_ has joined #swig 15:21:59 reto has quit 15:25:23 evlist has joined #swig 15:28:45 cbichis has joined #swig 15:29:13 cbichis has left #swig 15:31:50 allisterb_ has joined #swig 15:34:19 fgiasson has quit 15:38:53 gromgull has quit 15:48:43