11:00:51 <logger-sioc-rdfa> logger-sioc-rdfa has joined #swig
11:00:51 <grisham.freenode.net> topic is: Semantic Web Interest Group 24x7 publicly logged hack-'n'-chat. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/interest/ http://swig.xmlhack.com/  [often confused with the Interface Generator http://www.swig.org/ ]
11:00:51 <grisham.freenode.net> Users on #swig: logger-sioc-rdfa Zach_Beauvais cygri BenO IvanHerman mischat aklassen kurtjx ldodds LotR jaimico1 timbl leobard pauld Paul_Miller gromgull Xanthor[aw] MikeJ1971 swh ephemerian mmmmmrob jaimico iand tobyink shellac FabGandon besbes minmax pesla dmiles_afk Wikier reto Freso drewp mhausenblas bengee sYskk linxeh MacTed Arnia jaresty karlcow gsnedders eikeon drobilla allisterb LeeF fgiasson DanC Tristan JibberJim bblfish evlist Yudai ericP sandro 
11:00:51 <grisham.freenode.net> Users on #swig: kennyluck ivan dajobe earle mun phenny iv_an_ru PvK KjetilK beobal e271 edsu kasei iwaim Jerub dc_swig adileg Cloud_ workbench daniel-soton pjenvey kjetilkWork terraces xxv Shepard Anchakor ramsey monkeyiq logger deltab yvesr Tomothy shepazu david`bgk CaptSolo Leaving tuukkah sr dngor digikim_ simeoni 
11:01:37 <tobyink> Example...
11:01:47 <tobyink> logger-sioc-rdfa, tell tobyink
11:01:47 <tobyink> phenny, phenny, tell tobyink that tobyink says see http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10#T11-01-47
11:01:48 <phenny> logger-sioc-rdfa: I'll pass that on when tobyink is around.
11:01:53 <tobyink> Hello...
11:01:53 <phenny> tobyink: 11:01Z <logger-sioc-rdfa> tell tobyink that tobyink says see http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10#T11-01-47
11:03:08 <shellac> logger-sioc-rdfa, tell logger-sioc-rdfa
11:03:08 <shellac> phenny, phenny, tell logger-sioc-rdfa that shellac says see http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10#T11-03-08
11:03:09 <phenny> You can tell yourself that.
11:03:22 <shellac> curse your brains, phenny!
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11:03:57 <tobyink> C: [http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10#T11-01-47|Example log] which I'll keep running for a few hours.
11:03:59 <dc_swig> Added comment C5.
11:04:44 <tobyink> shellac: logger-sioc-rdfa ignores messages from phenny anyway.
11:05:49 <tobyink> C: @@TODO: make nicks of logger and phenny configurable command-line parameters.
11:05:51 <dc_swig> Added comment C6.
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11:29:49 <melvster> OAuth interesting: 5.4.2.  WWW-Authenticate Header
11:29:50 <phenny> melvster: 08:52Z <mhausenblas> tell melvster re  pushback authentication see  http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2009-03-10#T08-46-21
11:30:02 <melvster> Service Providers MAY indicate their support for the extension by returning the OAuth HTTP WWW-Authenticate header upon Consumer requests for Protected Resources. As per [RFC2617] such a response MAY include additional HTTP WWW-Authenticate headers:
11:30:10 <melvster> WWW-Authenticate: OAuth realm="http://sp.example.com/"
11:30:38 <melvster> mhausenblas:  thx, will write something up today
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11:37:39 <mhausenblas> logger-sioc-rdfa help
11:37:53 <mhausenblas> logger-sioc-rdfa, help me please, I need it :)
11:38:14 <mhausenblas> wow, a verbose bot ;)
11:38:19 <mhausenblas> great work, tobyink
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11:38:35 <mhausenblas> logger-sioc-rdfa: bookmark
11:38:35 <mhausenblas> See http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10.html#T11-38-35
11:39:05 <mhausenblas> can the sioc logger please use the same 'pointer' command :)?
11:39:48 <tobyink> mhausenblas: it does.
11:39:51 <tobyink> logger, help
11:39:51 <logger> The commands I know are:
11:39:52 <logger>  silence      - Stop logging (also: stop, off, ...)
11:39:54 <logger>  listen       - Start logging (also: start, on, ...)
11:39:55 <logger>  bookmark     - Give the URI of the current log
11:39:56 <logger>  chump LETTER - Record the URI of the current log under chump LETTER
11:39:57 <logger> I respond to 'logger, command' in public and '/msg logger command' in private
11:39:58 <logger> Logging Policy: All public output is logged if I am listening except for
11:39:59 <logger> any lines starting [off].   All commands to me are logged.
11:40:00 <logger> My public output is logged but these lines are not searchable.
11:40:01 <logger> The logs are at http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/
11:40:02 <logger> Do logger, adminhelp for help on administrative commands
11:40:23 <tobyink> Note that it also lists "bookmark" as the command. "pointer" is an alias.
11:40:28 <mhausenblas> ah, thanks
11:40:59 <mhausenblas> the http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10.rdf causes Tabulator to say: badly formed XML
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11:46:33 <melvster> It is RECOMMENDED that Service Providers accept the HTTP Authorization header. Consumers SHOULD be able to send OAuth Protocol Parameters in the OAuth Authorization header.
11:46:58 <melvster> so in oauth they want to place key value pairs in the HTTP header
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11:47:56 <melvster> (i think)
11:49:14 <melvster> header looks like this: http://esw.pastebin.com/m25626500
11:52:30 <mhausenblas> http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenDataGoodPractice
11:52:31 <dc_swig> D: http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenDataGoodPractice from mhausenblas
11:52:55 <mhausenblas> D:| Good Practices Collection for LOD Publishing and Discovery
11:52:56 <dc_swig> Titled item D.
11:53:16 <mhausenblas> D: yet another wish-list? depends on YOU! ;)
11:53:18 <dc_swig> Added comment D1.
11:53:34 <tobyink> mhausenblas: http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/ is able to read http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10.rdf. Perhaps you visited during a write operation, when the file was not fully out to disk?
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12:00:56 <tobyink> SPARQL autodiscovery: <p xmlns:v="http://rdfs.org/ns/void#" typeof="v:Dataset"><span xmlns:f="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/" rel="f:homepage" resource="">This website's</span> <a rel="v:sparqlEndpoint" href="/sparql">SPARQL endpoint</a></p>
12:03:37 <cygri> i'm booking flights using mhausenblas' credit card
12:03:42 <cygri> i owe him 75 pints now
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12:14:26 <melvster> cygri:  i think there is a beer owing ontology
12:16:03 <ldodds> there is: http://purl.org/net/schemas/quaffing
12:17:46 <melvster> ldodds++ thanks, that's the one! :)
12:18:04 <ldodds> np, now you owe me a beer :)
12:18:26 <melvster> ill add it to my ledger :)
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12:22:57 <melvster> here's the thread i read: http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-dev/2002-December/004625.html
12:23:12 <melvster> foaf:beerTokens
12:29:03 <mhausenblas> oh you silly people, go back to work!
12:29:05 <mhausenblas> :)
12:29:17 <mhausenblas> * mhausenblas ruined
12:29:27 <mhausenblas> cygri has crashed the limit
12:29:29 <mhausenblas> :D
12:30:24 <mhausenblas> tobyink: yes, re http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/logger-sioc-rdfa/swig/2009-03-10.rdf
12:30:32 <mhausenblas> but read what I said ;)
12:30:39 <mhausenblas> *Tabulator* says ...
12:30:40 <mhausenblas> ;)
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12:43:28 <tobyink> Ah. Tabulator doesn't parse XML properly?
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12:52:27 <bblfish> anyone know what CIFPs are called in OWL2 http://esw.w3.org/topic/CIFP
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13:03:18 <shellac> bblfish: I think you want 'keys'
13:03:28 <bblfish> ah yes, thanks
13:04:15 <bblfish> * bblfish just in the middle of writing a paper, and not much time left
13:04:37 <melvster> bblfish:  btw, i liked this: "Identification is the process whereby a network element recognizes a valid user's identity. Authentication is the process of verifying the claimed identity of a user."
13:05:29 <bblfish> yes, but I find the first part is nearly empty
13:05:31 <bblfish> "dentification is the process whereby a network element recognizes a valid user's identity"
13:05:42 <melvster> Once an agent identifies you have a trust score on how authentic you think they are, once they authenticate that trust score is increased
13:06:12 <bblfish> I'd prefer to go back to the etymology of the word, and see that authentication is about verifying authorship
13:06:25 <bblfish> I think wikipedia has a much more detailed and interesting article
13:06:51 <bblfish> see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authentication
13:07:44 <bblfish> but well, I am probably wrong
13:07:49 <bblfish> :-)
13:08:15 <bblfish> mhh perhaps not: In art, antiques, and anthropology, a common problem is verifying that a given artifact was produced by a certain famous person, or was produced in a certain place or period of history.
13:08:44 <bblfish> I think the security people are mixing up identification and authentication
13:09:13 <bblfish> because they don't usually have cases that keep them seperated
13:11:24 <melvster> seems to be quite a few approaches
13:12:33 <melvster> i also think the mere act of identification covers authentication in the vast majority of cases
13:15:10 <melvster> given that the vast majority of users will identify themselves in authentic way, you can infer by bayes theorem, that identification probably gives somewhere close to a 99% trust level that the user is authetnic, of course the 1% is important because you can cause a lot of damage with identity theft, so authentication is also key to increasing that to close to 100%
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13:18:41 <melvster> to put it another way, just as in the real world, identifying yourself is normally good enough for a good confidence level, if you call a friend up and say 'its me', normally that will be good enough for them to disclose some information to you
13:25:05 <bblfish> well identification is one thing only. Verifying that a name refers to you
13:25:44 <bblfish> when a clients sends a cert it sends it's public key. The server verifies the public key in the TLS protocol. At that point it has identified the client
13:26:31 <bblfish> 2. When the server then authenticates the certificate as belonging to the CA, it can than identify the client with the client DN - again an identification step
13:26:32 <melvster> yes i guess in a way every client is a number, and that number is their public key
13:27:18 <bblfish> ( a public key is a relation between a formula and values for variables )
13:27:36 <bblfish> so authentication is just different
13:27:44 <bblfish> that comes when one decides did X write Y
13:27:51 <bblfish> or does X belong to Y
13:27:55 <bblfish> stuff like that
13:28:48 <bblfish> Anyway, my claim is that if you make a distintion liket that the two words start having an interesting sense
13:29:18 <bblfish> but perhaps, they just are inextricably linked
13:30:00 <bblfish> (I can't quite decide) I 'll have to see if it helps clarify things to make the distinction. If it does not then there is no point pushing it further
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13:39:35 <melvster> theres some interesting points in the wiki article discussion tab
13:39:45 <melvster> Strictly speaking, the types of authentication are:
13:39:45 <melvster> Something only the user is
13:39:45 <melvster> Something only the user has
13:39:45 <melvster> Something only the user knows
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14:29:58 <dajobe> http://www.guardian.co.uk/data-store
14:29:59 <dc_swig> E: http://www.guardian.co.uk/data-store from dajobe
14:30:09 <dajobe> E:|Guardian (UK newpaper) data store
14:30:10 <dc_swig> Titled item E.
14:37:25 <mischat> dajobe: interesting, most of it looks like it is exposed in google code spreedsheets
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14:40:22 <dajobe> that's a shame
14:40:51 <dajobe> E:see [http://simonwillison.net/2009/Mar/10/openplatform/|simon willison's notes]
14:40:52 <dc_swig> Added comment E1.
14:41:42 <dajobe> E:there's an API as well as store
14:41:43 <dc_swig> Added comment E2.
14:42:26 <dajobe> E:[http://www.guardian.co.uk/open-platform/what-is-the-open-platform|What is the Open platform?]
14:42:28 <dc_swig> Added comment E3.
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15:29:56 <cygri> ping mhausenblas
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15:41:47 <mhausenblas> poing cygri
15:41:50 <mhausenblas> ;)
15:42:01 <mhausenblas> whatzup lad
15:43:23 <mhausenblas> not that you couldn't lift your a.. and walk over the 5m, no
15:43:31 <mhausenblas> :P
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18:22:43 <bblfish> do people agree with this rule:
18:22:44 <bblfish> { ?resource log:semantics [ log:includes { ?resource ?r ?o } ] }
18:22:44 <bblfish>     => { ?resource ?r ?o } .
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18:28:39 <bblfish> btw, the above is a key element for linked data
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18:56:52 <bblfish> or is that only true if
18:57:24 <bblfish> * bblfish { ?a ?r ?b .
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18:57:38 <bblfish> oops
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18:58:39 <bblfish> { ?a ?r ?b . ?a log:semantics [ log:includes { ?a ?rel ?o } ] => { ?a ?rel ?o }
18:59:16 <bblfish> that is if you already believe some statement, then you believe the log semantics of it's individual components
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19:16:14 <Shepard> reading http://simonwillison.net/2009/Mar/10/openplatform/ I wonder if "REST-ish" is the new "RESTful" for those that don't want to get laughed at by fielding
19:16:25 <Shepard> *those who
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19:20:14 <dajobe> REST-ish means 'uses GET'
19:20:46 <melvster> "You must either replace (by re-requesting) or delete all OPG Content you hold (whether or not published on Your Website) at least every 24 hours."
19:21:18 <melvster> personally I think that's fine, but it's interesting how you'd fomulate a strategy to cope with data that expires
19:21:26 <shellac> dajobe: how dare you. it use get, and the uris are of the form /api/items/item
19:21:36 <shellac> that's rest-ish
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19:22:05 <shellac> it's all about nice looking uris
19:25:47 <shellac> now I can read the api docs it looks ok. they pass around uris, so good for them
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20:28:29 <mhausenblas> good night Web Of Data
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21:20:50 <gsnedders> http://stuff.gsnedders.com/w3c.refer — it works!
21:20:52 <dc_swig> F: http://stuff.gsnedders.com/w3c.refer from gsnedders
21:21:14 <gsnedders> * gsnedders needs to stop accidently linking things like that
21:21:34 <gsnedders> That basically takes the RDF TR list, runs a couple of SPARQL queries, and spits that out
21:23:33 <dajobe> gosh refer.  that's like... before people forgot about bibtex
21:24:00 <gsnedders> Well, it's easier to parse than BibTeX
21:24:53 <karlcow> karlcow has quit
21:25:39 <gsnedders> (I was originally going to use BibTeX, then I started looking at parsers, realized they all only coped with a small subset, tried to write my own, realized why they only coped with a small subset, and switched to using refer.)
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22:04:51 <sandro> webcam now running at CSWG.....
22:05:16 <sandro> (but no audio, because... well.... normally I'm using a teleconference system at the same time.)
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